2000 P Dropped Letter Lincoln

[JeanK]

Here is a fun one for everyone to enjoy.
From what I have read in the "The Error Coin Encyclopedia Fourth Edition", by Arnold Margolis and Fred Weinberg, these errors are rather rare. I am surprised I cannot find any attribution for these errors. Does anyone know if there have been any breakthroughs for a new variety such as these?

Thanks LCR'ers,
JeanK

[1sgret]

No variety!. Just an error that can be sent to ANACS and with the appropriate funds and they will slab it as a "Dropped Letter on the Obverse". Nice find. Mine is a "C" on the reverse and yes in a way they are rare. Joe

[Shingpumps]

For this to happen alot of random things have to happen at an exact time. Very hard to find a legit example. Looks like this is one. Did you find it in circulation?

[JeanK]

Thanks Joe. I will give your idea some consideration. Maybe it is time to make these coins important!
Jean

[JeanK]

Hey Joshua,
Yep a bunch of random things make it possible. According to what I have read, it would be a big surprise to find more than one of them... BUT, I found two of them in the same roll of bu cents. I gave one to a coin dealer when he said 'I don't have an example of one of these in my collection'... he wanted to buy it, but gee whiz, he has helped me numerous times with attributions.
Jean

[1sgret]

For this to happen alot of random things have to happen at an exact time. Very hard to find a legit example. Looks like this is one. Did you find it in circulation?

Exactly right Shing and you can bet that I have seen alot of fakes on some auction houses and wanting a pretty sum for a fake. I looked several years before I found one in circulation. Attached is a 1971-D ANACS MS63RB Dropped Letter "C" Reverse.:D The 2000 P Dropped Letter is a nice coin and worthwhile having graded to show it's authenticity by any grading service.

[CCC]

Am I missing something here? It was my understanding that "Galvano" was used to make the Master Hub, then a Hub was made from that. A Die was made from a hub, then the coin was made. It was my understanding that no letter's or number's were used since 92. Am I missing something?

[JeanK]

According to what I read here...(highly paraphrased)...
This would have been possible because of a laminated planchet error.
The part of the coin with an imperfect mix of alloys may allow part of the coin, in this case the O or 0, to fall off a struck coin and that piece will remain behind when the coin is ejected and the next coin could receive that impression when struck.
Apparently it is thought that the flake of metal from the host coin will only impress one coin, but I did have two of the same... an exception to old rules?
Maybe I better get the other coin back and get them both to ANACS.
(AArrgghh... I would rather fight bulls in a 10'x10' arena than try that. And I have never fought bulls)

So, if I am totally off base with all this, then someone needs to step-in and set me straight..

JeanK

[JeanK]

Nice coin Joe... looks like we got the same number/letter... 29 years apart from different mints?! (naw, just joshin').
I bet someone with the right expertise can tell us if this is a letter or a number that got dropped... anyone?
Jean

[CCC]

According to what I read here...(highly paraphrased)...
This would have been possible because of a laminated planchet error.
The part of the coin with an imperfect mix of alloys may allow part of the coin, in this case the O or 0, to fall off a struck coin and that piece will remain behind when the coin is ejected and the next coin could receive that impression when struck.
Apparently it is thought that the flake of metal from the host coin will only impress one coin, but I did have two of the same... an exception to old rules?
Maybe I better get the other coin back and get them both to ANACS.
(AArrgghh... I would rather fight bulls in a 10'x10' arena than try that. And I have never fought bulls)

So, if I am totally off base with all this, then someone needs to step-in and set me straight..

JeanK

Now were getting somewhere. I guess that is possible. Someone needs to find the coin that the letter fell off.:)

[JeanK]

I thought I had David, but the dealer said it wasn't the same... oh well, some success is better than none at all.
Hmmmm, did anyone else find the coin we are seeking?
Jean

[CCC]

The coin we are probably seeking has the 0 in the date missing. The 0 on the head is a great fing JK.

[1sgret]

The definition is correct on how the error is made. If you have a pair of calipers you could measure the dropped letter vs the dropped numeral to tell which it is. (I think)
I would almost bet that the dropped letter is from "GOD"! (no pun intended.)

Dropped Letters/numbers are unique as they are caused by the flake which bears them from a previously struck coin. The flake will not create a second or subsequent dropped letter/number coin.
In other words the second coin he found is from another flake from another coin or he may have a post mint damaged coin if it is the same letter/number in the same position or a 1 in astronomical chance of two coins being alike by 2 diffrent flakes during a run of coins.
The value and authenticity of the coin would not be questioned if it properly graded. Still a very nice error on the coin shown.

[CCC]

The definition is correct on how the error is made. If you have a pair of calipers you could measure the dropped letter vs the dropped numeral to tell which it is. (I think)
I would almost bet that the dropped letter is from "GOD"! (no pun intended.)

Dropped Letters/numbers are unique as they are caused by the flake which bears them from a previously struck coin. The flake will not create a second or subsequent dropped letter/number coin.
In other words the second coin he found is from another flake from another coin or he may have a post mint damaged coin if it is the same letter/number in the same position or a 1 in astronomical chance of two coins being alike by 2 diffrent flakes during a run of coins.
The value and authenticity of the coin would not be questioned if it properly graded. Still a very nice error on the coin shown.

Would the dropped leave the impression on the die? Over time I'm sure it would fade away, but there should be alot of coins with this impression on a coin. Am I correct?

[1sgret]

No it would not. The flake is caused by debris which forms the letters on the die and drops off of the die and onto the the planchet being struck. This is why there is an "Incused" letter or number at random on the struck coin and the flake/debris disintegrates after leaving the impression into the coin being struck. If there were more than one coin struck by a "Fragment" of another coin, then yes the die would proably be affected and numerous coins would show the same struck design. Example 1983 CLO-002 was proably caused by a fragment.

[CCC]

I agree with part of a letter or number falling off causing this anomoly by falling Copper or Zinc. My Argument would be that a die is tempered to a certain hardness, over time the heat generated from making the coins would make the die soften over time. At any given point in a dies life it would accept any foreign object such as a letter or number or in the case of the 1983 CLO-002. I'm saying that this it is possible, like JK having more than 1 that there could be several produced by a single die.

[1sgret]

I would have to agree with that scenario. However the letters/numerals would not be incused into the coin. It would be incused into the die and show up as the features on the CLO-002 (above the fields)of the coins.

[CCC]

I would have to agree with that scenario. However the letters/numerals would not be incused into the coin. It would be incused into the die and show up as the features on the CLO-002 (above the fields)of the coins.
I deal and work with heat treated materials every day. I don't feel like it is a scenerio but a fact that it could happen with a die over time.

Its like looking in a mirror. I agree

[1sgret]

David, you have a good grasp on the minting process and yes, like looking into a mirror. Joe

[CCC]

Thank you Joe. The image projectected is incuse in a foreign spot. It's like reading a print, you have to visualize the coin.

[1sgret]

Correct and it can be confusing at times. Joe

[mustbebob]

I think I can shed some light on this dropped letter stuff. As we should know, all the devices on the die are incused. Therefore, a dropped letter isn't a letter at all, nor is it a lamination piece. (Kinda hard to have a dropped hole).
What happens is that debris of some sort gets stuck in one of the cavities of the die. The debris may be a combination of metal filings with grease or anything. Each strike further embeds the debris into the cavity. When it finally works its way loose and falls out, this 'gunk' is extremely hard from the pressures used during striking. This debris (in the shape of the device it fell from), falls onto the next planchet. Once the planchet is struck, the impression of that debris is left on that coin. Sometimes, that's all there is as when the coin is ejected, the debris goes with it. Sometimes, the debris sticks to the hammer die, and will make subsequent impression on the next few coins before it gets mashed and ejected. The rarity is because it can't last too long before it is unidentifiable.
Shown below are a few dropped letter coins I have. In two cases (the 1972D, and 1995) I found multiples in the same roll. 2 of the 95s and 3 of the 72D.

[JeanK]

I haven't been able to determine what dropped letter or ? caused this Lincoln cent's forehead indentation. Any ideas?

I have yet another one I can post.

Jean

[JeanK]

This one has not be positively identified, yet. 'D' or a portion of a 'B' ?
My apology for the shaky camera work and the size of the picture.
However, I will endeavor to locate the coin (yeh, right) and get a better picture if necessary.
This is more fun than going to a theme park!:)

Jean