Carbon spots and Details grading

**duece2seven** · 12-14-2017

Do carbon spots on a coin qualify for a "Details" grade? My main focus here is on seller ethics. I always notate carbon spotting when I sell on eBay. Most sellers do not- even on BU slab coins that people pay big bucks for. Is carbon spotting simply a "Buyer Beware" thing or what?

Thanks
Tracy

**jfines69** · 12-14-2017

I thought it was a details issue because it is a form of after mint damage... Ed should know more!!!

**GrumpyEd** · 12-14-2017

Small to medium size carbon spots might get straight grades. I avoid them because they might not lower the grade enough to make me feel it was enough cheaper than one with no spots. If people buy a spotted coin to fill a hole or complete a set, later when they see that coin the spot bugs them more and they wish they held out for one with no spot. The other concern is that it may grow.

When they have big and multiple spots they should get noted as "env damage" or "corroded" or "details" but TPGs aren't always consistent.

I can give some examples.

I had an 84 DDO-1 that had a medium and a couple small spots, it was noted on the holder (I think as env damage). I sold it at a low price to someone that wanted an example and they were happy, it was cheap and no spots near the ear and it was red.

I once had 2 31-S that were both red but one had a huge carbon spot that covered the beard and looked funny. Sent them both to be graded expecting the blackbeard to get noted as something but instead the blackbeard came back 62RD and the one with no spot came back 63RD. Perfect example of a coin you would hate, only lower by a grade but to me it was only worth about 10% of the no spot 63RD. If selling a coin like that I would certainly mention the spot, as a minimum a seller should show a pic that shows it and if it does not show well they should mention it.

**duece2seven** · 12-15-2017

Originally Posted by GrumpyEd

Small to medium size carbon spots might get straight grades. I avoid them because they might not lower the grade enough to make me feel it was enough cheaper than one with no spots. If people buy a spotted coin to fill a hole or complete a set, later when they see that coin the spot bugs them more and they wish they held out for one with no spot. The other concern is that it may grow.

When they have big and multiple spots they should get noted as "env damage" or "corroded" or "details" but TPGs aren't always consistent.

I can give some examples.

I had an 84 DDO-1 that had a medium and a couple small spots, it was noted on the holder (I think as env damage). I sold it at a low price to someone that wanted an example and they were happy, it was cheap and no spots near the ear and it was red.

I once had 2 31-S that were both red but one had a huge carbon spot that covered the beard and looked funny. Sent them both to be graded expecting the blackbeard to get noted as something but instead the blackbeard came back 62RD and the one with no spot came back 63RD. Perfect example of a coin you would hate, only lower by a grade but to me it was only worth about 10% of the no spot 63RD. If selling a coin like that I would certainly mention the spot, as a minimum a seller should show a pic that shows it and if it does not show well they should mention it.

I agree totally with the 10% part. I can see where this can be a somewhat grey area for both the TPG's and dealers/sellers but not when there is a huge , gnarly looking black spot which has blazing rusty edges. I guess this subject bugs me because so many of eBay's largest raw coin dealers seem to pay this issue no heed whatsoever. I just don't understand how these guys seemingly NEVER get bad feedback. I mean, it's one thing if they're pushing .99 start auctions. But, when they're selling $30+ coins as BIN's , that's a bit more shady to me. Oh well, the truth is this will likely never change in the online world. Unfortunately, getting burned buying online is just part of the initiation in becoming a knowledgeable collector. For me, I'd rather lose money than sell someone a coin I know they will regret later.

Thanks for your input, guys!

**Petespockets55** · 12-15-2017

Originally Posted by duece2seven

I agree totally with the 10% part. I can see where this can be a somewhat grey area for both the TPG's and dealers/sellers but not when there is a huge , gnarly looking black spot which has blazing rusty edges. I guess this subject bugs me because so many of eBay's largest raw coin dealers seem to pay this issue no heed whatsoever. I just don't understand how these guys seemingly NEVER get bad feedback. I mean, it's one thing if they're pushing .99 start auctions. But, when they're selling $30+ coins as BIN's , that's a bit more shady to me. Oh well, the truth is this will likely never change in the online world. Unfortunately, getting burned buying online is just part of the initiation in becoming a knowledgeable collector. For me, I'd rather lose money than sell someone a coin I know they will regret later.

Thanks for your input, guys!

Nice to know you are a seller with integrity.
Unfortunately I think you are right, uninitiated buyers will get burned thinking the higher price coin must be "better"!!

**Maineman750** · 12-15-2017

I guess I'm wondering if the pics these sellers provide are not good enough to see the carbon spots ? I typically provide good pics and let the buyer decide grade.

**jfines69** · 12-15-2017

When you put pics up on your sellers page is there a size limit???

**GrumpyEd** · 12-15-2017

I like to mention any spots even if it shows in the pic, it won't stop a buyer from complaining or returning but at least I can tell them "the spot was in the pics and description".