1956-D VEDS

[VAB2013]

Here is a pic of a 56-D from the same roll, but with a fully-struck 6 that shows the damage I'm talking about. Perhaps folks have seen this before and can comment. I don't know how many 56-D dies show this phenomenon but as I go through the rolls I have I'll take note, and pics as appropriate. Think of this as a teaser for later...

Thank you for the images and especially the 3D image, that is so cool looking and shows the anomaly on the 6 very well! This is really interesting, looking forward to more information on your findings Ray!

[GrumpyEd]

And there are a lot of different dies. I've seen this in many rolls.

There are a lot, I'm so used to seeing it that I've never paid attention to see if it's always the same size.

[ray_parkhurst]

Going back to the OP topic, I have a few extra of the VEDS coins from the same roll. They're in a bit worse condition than the one I posted, but still BU. If folks would like to have one to study, PM me.

[VAB2013]

Going back to the OP topic, I have a few extra of the VEDS coins from the same roll. They're in a bit worse condition than the one I posted, but still BU. If folks would like to have one to study, PM me.

Thank you Ray! This is a cool idea! It would be nice if some of the guys can do this, and I will definitely be looking closer at the 1956D's that I run across!

Edit: Would this anomaly on the 6 only be on Denver coins? Didn't Philly make the dies for Denver in 1956?

[ray_parkhurst]

I suppose it should also be on 56-P coins as well, but I have not really gone through many 56-P rolls. I'm mostly an RPM guy, so don't buy P-Mint rolls except for the mid-40's.

[VAB2013]

I suppose it should also be on 56-P coins as well, but I have not really gone through many 56-P rolls. I'm mostly an RPM guy, so don't buy P-Mint rolls except for the mid-40's.

Thank you Ray! I will be on the lookout for this anomaly on 56P's and 56D's and will compare anything I find that might be a possible match to your photos! Looking forward to what you and the other's who are studying this find out!

[jfines69]

I did a quick look on VV for the DDOs for both the 56D http://varietyvista.com/01a%20LC%20D...O%201956-D.htm and 56P http://varietyvista.com/01a%20LC%20D...DDO%201956.htm and the 56D RPMs http://varietyvista.com/02a%20LC%20R...Ms%201956D.htm and the 6 shows on a number of the listed coins, including proofs, in varying degrees... Related to a working hub maybe???

[ray_parkhurst]

Interestingly, after looking through about 20 of the 60+ rolls I plan to search, I have not found a single example of a fully-struck 56-D that does not show this phenomenon. All the well-struck coins have it. It's also interesting that the strongest-struck "weak strike" coins are all about the same in bring-up of the "6" metal. I see the same thing in the pictured coins on VV.

Can anyone find an example pic of a fully-struck 56-P or 56-D that does not show this phenomenon? Or can you produce a fully-struck example coin? I'm wondering now if this is a master hub problem. It could be that:

The master hub sustained damage that went un-noticed when it was made
At least one master die was used to make several working hubs that show the damage
Someone noticed the damage, and the master hub was modified to lower the relief on the 6
New master die(s) and working hubs have lower relief on the 6, even if fully-struck
There may be no coins from 1956 that show a full-strike 6 without damage

If anyone can produce a coin that is fully-struck, and has a full-relief 6 without damage, then this will disprove my hypothesis.

[jfines69]

Interestingly, after looking through about 20 of the 60+ rolls I plan to search, I have not found a single example of a fully-struck 56-D that does not show this phenomenon. All the well-struck coins have it. It's also interesting that the strongest-struck "weak strike" coins are all about the same in bring-up of the "6" metal. I see the same thing in the pictured coins on VV.

Can anyone find an example pic of a fully-struck 56-P or 56-D that does not show this phenomenon? Or can you produce a fully-struck example coin? I'm wondering now if this is a master hub problem. It could be that:

The master hub sustained damage that went un-noticed when it was made
At least one master die was used to make several working hubs that show the damage
Someone noticed the damage, and the master hub was modified to lower the relief on the 6
New master die(s) and working hubs have lower relief on the 6, even if fully-struck
There may be no coins from 1956 that show a full-strike 6 without damage

If anyone can produce a coin that is fully-struck, and has a full-relief 6 without damage, then this will disprove my hypothesis.

That is interesting... The master hub makes the working hub correct??? The working hub is a positive in other words it looks like the coin and the working die is a negative... In order for the anomaly to show up incuse on the coin it would need to be incuse on the working hub or the master die??? The master hub would be incuse like the working die??? Unless I have things backwards again

[VAB2013]

Just checked Bob's Master Die Doubling list and 56's are not on there.

http://www.lincolncentforum.com/forum/showthread.php?41847-Master-Die-Doubling-sticky-by-Bob&highlight=bob%27s+master

[ray_parkhurst]

That is interesting... The master hub makes the working hub correct??? The working hub is a positive in other words it looks like the coin and the working die is a negative... In order for the anomaly to show up incuse on the coin it would need to be incuse on the working hub or the master die??? The master hub would be incuse like the working die??? Unless I have things backwards again

So the process is:

Galvano with date is reduced on Janvier lathe to a Master Hub. The letters are raised. If the Galvano had a problem on the 6, this would exist on the Master Hub. Or maybe there was a problem during the reduction process

Master Hub is used to make several Master Dies. Letters are incuse.

Master Dies are used to make a bunch of Working Hubs. Letters are raised. Any damage to a Working Hub would show up on only some % of the final coins.

Working Hubs are used to make all the Working Dies needed for production. Letters are incuse again.

[jfines69]

So the process is:

Galvano with date is reduced on Janvier lathe to a Master Hub. The letters are raised. If the Galvano had a problem on the 6, this would exist on the Master Hub. Or maybe there was a problem during the reduction process

Master Hub is used to make several Master Dies. Letters are incuse.

Master Dies are used to make a bunch of Working Hubs. Letters are raised. Any damage to a Working Hub would show up on only some % of the final coins.

Working Hubs are used to make all the Working Dies needed for production. Letters are incuse again.

Thanks Ray... I always get the master hub/master die backwards... Hopefully I remember the order this time!!!

[ray_parkhurst]

I finished looking through the 67 BU rolls of 56-D. It was a lot of work! I can now come to the conclusion that there are few if any fully-struck 56-D Cents without the damage on the 6. I did not find a single coin out of >3000 searched. I pulled out a representative group of dies with varying strike quality and evidence of the damage, and will be imaging some of these to share. Should be interesting once I get them documented and can make better comparisons.

In that group of 67 rolls, I also found:

1 RPM #1
7 OMM #1
10 RPD
~25 mixed RPMs needing attribution
~20 VEDS coins from several dies
~5 nice toners
1 full toned roll

Will be a fun study...Ray

[jfines69]

Cool... Thanks for the update... Looking forward to your photos!!!

[VAB2013]

Congrats Ray! Your study of the 56D, anomaly on the 6, turned up some very nice varieties and toners in the process! And they are all BU!!! Can't wait for photos!