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Thread: 1956-D VEDS

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    Paid Member ray_parkhurst's Avatar
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    1956-D VEDS

    I am going through a bunch of 56-D BU rolls I have accumulated over the last couple years (since my last multi-roll search) and will be posting any finds of interest. First one is a VEDS example. This is the best condition VEDS coin I have ever found, and indeed it is also one of the earliest strikes on new dies I have seen. You can see the many fine scratch lines that likely disappeared after a few hundred (thousand? no one really knows) coins were struck. Some other interesting features also show that are unusual on later die state coins.

    Let me know comments or questions about the coin.



    Edited to add: Here is a crop of the area between beard and date...very interesting area

    Last edited by ray_parkhurst; 05-16-2018 at 12:34 PM.
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    Paid Member jfines69's Avatar
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    That is nice... That is a strange mark... Looks like some one took a pizza cutter across the die I zoomed in to 500% and I think you are correct on the VEDS... Everything is really sharp looking... Is the 6 a normal design... To me it looks like it could be an isolated Class 6??? There also appears to be a slight up slope on the lower horizontal bar of the E in WE??? Even the inside of the 9 looks a little out of round??? May just be my pair of doilies kickin' in


    Added - What does the rev look like???
    Jim
    (A.K.A. Elmer Fudd) Be verwy verwy quiet... I'm hunting coins!!! Good Hunting!!!

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    Forum Ambassador VAB2013's Avatar
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    Very sharp looking VEDS 1956D Ray! The field looks almost proof like and the devices are so strong! Any idea what could have caused those linear dots (pizza cutter)? Is that something you have seen before on EDS Lincolns?

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    Paid Member ray_parkhurst's Avatar
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    The pizza cutter mark is new to me, but I don't think these very shallow marks on a new die would have lasted very long, so they probably would not show up on the vast majority of coins struck by this die.

    The question of the "6" is an interesting one, and worth a study on its own. Many 56D dies show some odd characterstics in the lower outside curve. I will likely do a study at some point as it really appears that there was damage done perhaps to a working hub. It is hard to tell on this coin if it is "normal" or has "damaged 6" since the strike is not full in that area.

    Reason I zoomed-in to the area below the chin is this is a high-wear area, and seems to start showing metal flow lines in the die first. I've seen this on EDS coins with enough wear to have flow lines in this area but not in others. Indeed there are flow lines showing, but I don't think they are due to die wear, but "real" flow lines in the planchet itself. Remember that in later die states, the flow lines seen on the struck coins are imparted by the die. These lines are gradually worn into the die by the flow of metal in the struck planchets. But if the die is new, there are no imparted "die wear flow lines" since the die is not worn, yet the planchet metal still flows in those areas. This gives a good opportunity to study the metal flow in the planchet without distraction of the die wear.
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    Paid Member WaterSport's Avatar
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    I am with Viv on her proof like observation. Neat stuff for sure.

    WS

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    Paid Member ray_parkhurst's Avatar
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    The field is not shiny like a brilliant proof, but very satiny. It is for sure flat and uniform like a proof. With proofs we are spoiled by their being all from VEDS, so I suppose a VEDS business strike will share some of the same visual qualities.
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    Forum Ambassador VAB2013's Avatar
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    Thank you Bob and Ray! I was trying to post to this thread awhile ago, then the phone rang and I had an encounter with a skeeter eater!

    Ray, you mentioned something very interesting that I have never thought about. Not sure if I understand, but this is what I think you are describing... as the die ages it causes the die flow lines on the coin to become more prominent and begin to make an impression in the die? In layman's terms, is that correct?

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    Paid Member ray_parkhurst's Avatar
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    Viv, here is the process:

    - A new die has no die flow lines. It is smooth as produced by the die shop. It may have scratches and such as seen on the VEDS coin but in general it is in good unworn condition
    - The first coin struck with the new die will generally show the quality of the die surfaces. In fact all subsequent coins will also show the quality of the die surfaces.
    - Some characteristics of the planchet will also show on the first coin struck, especially in areas not fully struck-up, such as high points on the devices.
    - Even the low points, which are primarily determined by the die, will show some characteristics of the planchet. This is due to metal flow creating micro-distortions and is visible as fine-grained flow lines. But the surface will remain smooth like the die.
    - The flow of planchet metal causes some distortion and flow of the die metal. The distortions are in the direction of the flow of the planchet metal, and are cumulative so the more coins are struck, the more distortion damage is induced in the die
    - EDS, MDS, LDS coins are progressions of wear on the die due to cumulative damage from the flow of planchet metal
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    Forum Ambassador VAB2013's Avatar
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    Thank you Ray for this explanation! Your photo example also showed me the difference between a die scratch on and VEDS coin vs. a die crack on a later die state, which actually look quite similar on the coin you have presented (at the 9 and the mint mark)

    I've never thought to associate the die flow lines created on the coin affecting the die itself, this is pretty fascinating to think about!

    It will be interesting to know more about your study related to the 6 on these 1956D's. My first thought was PSD because that is what I see mostly when searching... but you may be onto something here!

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    Paid Member jfines69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VAB2013 View Post
    Thank you Ray for this explanation! Your photo example also showed me the difference between a die scratch on and VEDS coin vs. a die crack on a later die state, which actually look quite similar on the coin you have presented (at the 9 and the mint mark)

    I've never thought to associate the die flow lines created on the coin affecting the die itself, this is pretty fascinating to think about!

    It will be interesting to know more about your study related to the 6 on these 1956D's. My first thought was PSD because that is what I see mostly when searching... but you may be onto something here!
    In the case of a die and planchet the flow lines are related to spalling very similar to a bullet hitting a piece of metal... It is due to the continuous high velocity and high pressure impact of the die on the planchets... Here is a link with some pics https://www.google.com/search?q=spal...Oy3HodpdyhWsM: Hope that helps a little!!!
    Jim
    (A.K.A. Elmer Fudd) Be verwy verwy quiet... I'm hunting coins!!! Good Hunting!!!

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