1992 p planchet error

[Petespockets55]

Sorry for the delayed reply to all. Work has been interfering with fun.
(Down a guy and having to fill in to try to keep on schedule.)

Viv, you're on the right track because there is some metal from the struck devices filling in the incuse area (from the pressure of the strike).

Jim, definitely not a strike through. May need to send to you for better images and clarification.

Jon, I'll try your suggestion a little later when more time is available.

George (Roller), First image below is for you.

Meanwhile, here are some more images taken at night. (darkness at night seems to help somewhat, less ambient light messing with the phone I think)

And of course, Thanks for all comments. Cliff

[jfines69]

Fairly good follow up pics... A little blurry but not to bad... Except for were the item of interest crosses the devices the edges are nice and sharp like a struck thru would be... However, I'm old but easy Send it my way if you want to... I'll get the best pics I can for ya!!!

[Roller]

It is looking like a struck through. It is not PSD and is not a incomplete clip. If there is an other possibility, I'm ready to concede.

[Petespockets55]

Wouldn't the depth of a strike through be a uniform depth?
In other words, the deepest part of the anomaly should be a consistent depth if it was struck through.
This anomaly is not as deep where it intersects the devices. Wouldn't this mean the metal flowed into this area when struck by the dies? Less metal in these areas to fill the devices because the metal was lacking when the dies struck.

[GrumpyEd]

I'm thinking it seems more like a struck through than a scratch on the planchet before strike.

If it was a scratch then from the strike I think it would close up most in the fields and least in the high spots (tops of letters) leaving the deepest groove through the letters (like planchet lines and defects show best in high areas on cents like the shoulder or flat area of the hair). This coin seems opposite, it looks like the line is deepest in the fields and less deep crossing the letters.

[GrumpyEd]

Just adding,

If it's struck through like a sliver of metal or wire that's an even diameter, then the depth might be constant in the fields but over a letter it's covering more design per length of the sliver/wire since it needs to conform to the sides of the raised letter plus the width so it might be less deep on the letter and least deep right where the letter intersects the field because that sliver/wire is stretching to follow the edges of the letter.

Thinking out loud, does that make sense?

[jfines69]

Just adding,

If it's struck through like a sliver of metal or wire that's an even diameter, then the depth might be constant in the fields but over a letter it's covering more design per length of the sliver/wire since it needs to conform to the sides of the raised letter plus the width so it might be less deep on the letter and least deep right where the letter intersects the field because that sliver/wire is stretching to follow the edges of the letter.

Thinking out loud, does that make sense?

Yes it makes sense to me!!!

[Petespockets55]

Just adding,

If it's struck through like a sliver of metal or wire that's an even diameter, then the depth might be constant in the fields but over a letter it's covering more design per length of the sliver/wire since it needs to conform to the sides of the raised letter plus the width so it might be less deep on the letter and least deep right where the letter intersects the field because that sliver/wire is stretching to follow the edges of the letter.

Thinking out loud, does that make sense?

Thanks for your input Ed. And yes, what your are saying makes sense for a softer more pliable object (thread or cloth). But tensile stength and tension of the wire while being pressed against the surface of the planchet would not allow much deflection of the wire into the die cavity, on the narrow distance of a letter. There might be some but not much. The sides would also stay relatively parallel and not show much deformity.

A rim hitting the planchet before the strike could create an incuse arc (and the ends would taper off as it exits the surface of the planchet) similar to end of the arc at the column on mine. Wouldn't a "struck through a piece of wire" show an incuse area with parallel sides along the entire length of the anomaly, even at the end of the wire?


I think we are in agreement on the following:
1)The incuse area appears to be caused by a dense rigid object, probably metal.
2)There is some metal flow or distortion on the bottom and sides where the incuse area intersects the letters of the coin.

I believe our differences lie in the appearance of the metal once it flows into and through the intersection of the anomaly and the letters.

My belief is that the error is determined by the metal flow at the intersection of two incuse areas (letters of the die and incuse area on the planchet) as opposed to the metal flow at the intersection of one incuse area and the metal/wire object.

(I'm not trying to beat his horse to death and I hope I'm not sounding argumentative or difficult because of my lack of communication skills and thought process. I'm trying to make sense of what I'm seeing and have learned while being a part of this forum. It is frustrating and I apologize if I have come off this way because everyone here has been so helpful sharing their knowledge and time.)
Thanks again, Cliff

[GrumpyEd]

Cliff,

I know what you mean.
Sort of based on how hard the thing it's struck through is. What I said makes the most sense if it's a sliver of metal. If it's a harder metal wire then it might be a deeper groove crossing the letter.

That's why this one is tough to be sure about.

[mustbebob]

This indeed looks like a struck through. A couple of things to remember though. Even a thread leaves an impression so there are many possibilities here. What caused this struck through is unknown but variables do exist. Mike Diamond once die an article about a struck through filament on a steel cent I had found. The depth of the filament was different on some parts of the coin. We can think outside the box a bit and assume that whatever it was in the striking chamber was the same thickness throughout, but that may not be the case. The different 'hills and valley's' of the die, along with the striking pressure will determine how weak or strong the struck through is. We can try to guess what the item was, but in the big scheme of things, this is a struck through where we will never know what was struck. It is a very nice example though. Well worth holding on to.