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Thread: 1964D confusion

  1. #1
    Paid Member TPring's Avatar
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    1964D confusion

    Additional Information
    Date: 1964
    Variety: RPM
    Mint: Denver
    Coneca: 003

    This RPM has a die chip behind the ear [MLDS], no crack above VDB [EDS?], no die chips on or next to the columns [EDS?] and, no chip at the right Cornice [EDS?].

    Would this be an EDS? VV CC

    ...and the two sites give conflicting column markers.


    Thanks for any assistance,
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    Last edited by TPring; 07-12-2018 at 11:23 PM.
    If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice -- Freewill

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    Paid Member makecents's Avatar
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    First of all, very nice RPM, that's a cool one!! What holds consistent for the two sites is the MDS for the die chip behind the ear. I know you don't see the crack over VDB but maybe it is there and is faint or worn by circulation or just before it came to be. I say yours is MDS and has a different reverse die.

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    Moderator jfines69's Avatar
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    I think Jon nailed it... Can you get a close up of the date/MM???
    Jim
    (A.K.A. Elmer Fudd) Be verwy verwy quiet... I'm hunting coins!!! Good Hunting!!!

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    Lincoln Cent Variety Expert mustbebob's Avatar
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    ...and the two sites give conflicting column markers.
    Please remember that different attributers from different sites list what they think is an important marker. It is very possible that the coins examined show some markers better than others. If I see a coin with 10 markers, I would pick what I believe my customers would be able to find to verify their variety.

    This brings me to another point I have made many times but it seems some people tend to ignore. Most varieties are unique enough to not need markers for verification. If you are trying to identify a particular variety, the anomaly is always the first way to ID it. Listed markers are only meant to help if you are having difficulty between similar varieties. Die states/stage markers help if you have a coin where you want to know how long the dies were used for striking coins and to see the difference striking coins makes from start to finish.
    Bob Piazza
    Lincoln Cent Attributer
    coppercoins.com

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    Paid Member TPring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfines69 View Post
    ... Can you get a close up of the date/MM???
    I have a dozen of these in approximately the same condition.

    Attached are several pics with various lighting levels that will hopefully give you an indication of the die state.

    None of the sites mentioned a reverse die switch so if my coins are more LDS then that would be a possibility. I may have a mixture of stages but, I have not been able to seriously look and compare at this time.

    Can you describe some of what you are looking for in making the determination on die stage?

    Let me know if these pics will not suffice.


    Thanks so much for all you do for me and the others on the forum.
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    Last edited by TPring; 07-15-2018 at 07:07 AM.
    If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice -- Freewill

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    Lincoln Cent Variety Expert mustbebob's Avatar
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    Can you describe some of what you are looking for in making the determination on die stage?
    Primarily, it's die flow lines. The more pronounced they are, the later the die stage. In addition, the sharpness of all the letters/devices especially near the rim is a good indicator. There are more subtle ways also that some folks develop when doing this for a long time.

    If there is a reverse die change, some sites may not be aware of it if they had only attributed a single coin in a single die state. I did not acknowledge a die change on anything in coppercoins unless I saw it myself. That may explain one of the issues.
    Bob Piazza
    Lincoln Cent Attributer
    coppercoins.com

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    Moderator jfines69's Avatar
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    When looking for markers remember that, like Bob said, different folks may identify different markers but it is also highly unlikely they will note all of them and that's where the images come in handy... When markers are needed to i.d. I always look for mentioned markers first and if there are none I compare to the visible markers in the images (die scratches, flow lines, cracks, chips and clashes)... I also try to stay on the side of the coin with the variety since, as we know, the opposing die could have been changed... As for die stages I am not to good with that... I try but we know how that works Other than flow lines there are also the size of die cracks and chips (an instance where size does matter )... If the coin you are looking at has the same crack/chip as the known variety and it is larger then it would be a later die stage... If you wish I can download the images you posted and attempt to figure out what die stage they are... If possible a full obv would help also... It is easier to figure out the die stage when the entire coin is included in the identification... Remember that the entire die wears and a lot of the time the wear will be uneven!!!

    Added - Sorry for the delay in getting back to you!!!
    Jim
    (A.K.A. Elmer Fudd) Be verwy verwy quiet... I'm hunting coins!!! Good Hunting!!!

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