The 59-D wheat cent up for sale in the news

**VAB2013** · 05-21-2019

Ed, you are right... I didn't think of the thousands of different dies, and the reverse wheat could be from another previous year - not 1958 if it's a fake. There seems to be a lot of discrepancies in different things I have read. Here is a link that states that when PCGS President David Hall examined the coin he declared it to be counterfeit. Of course stories get blown out of proportion and you can't believe everything you read on the internet.

Third paragraph, 4th sentence.
http://www.nasc.net/manuscripts/one-...ind/index.html

**GrumpyEd** · 05-22-2019

Viv,

Every story has different things.

Since when does David give answers like that?
Other things said it has normal polishing lines.
The guy that claims he made it said it was made by spark erosion (that would be textured and no polish lines).

I do not think most TPGs ever proclaim any coin is definitely fake for legal reasons. I thought by law or rules they need to give it to the gov not return it if they know it is fake. That would be a bummer since that coin sold for 48K as a fake. Some counterfeit gold coins are gold and you wouldn't want to have them not return it if you sent it in plus what if you do not agree and want another opinion, grading is only an opinion. The closest thing to be graded as fake (like from PCGS) would be code 90 "counterfeit" but if you look it up on their site their definition says something like "highly suspect". I don't think there is a "thing" they give that says "your coin is guaranteed fake".

**willbrooks** · 05-22-2019

Originally Posted by jfines69

I would love to get some high resolution pics of that... If a matching obv die from 59 and a rev die from 58 could be found then we would have the proofIf that happened it would be worth double any of the 43 coppers!!!

Even finding that these dies are used elsewhere by the Mint doesn't preclude that the piece wasn't intentionally made by a Mint worker, which I believe is most probable. To me, that limits its value to a conversation piece.

**VAB2013** · 05-22-2019

Thank you Ed, Will and Jim for your information on this controversial 1959-D cent "mule"! I didn't realize the plot was so thick!

**willbrooks** · 05-22-2019

Originally Posted by VAB2013

Thank you Ed, Will and Jim for your information on this controversial 1959-D cent "mule"! I didn't realize the plot was so thick!

Well, you know, we used to actually have great discussions like this about coins rather than just over-analyzing die cracks and damage all day.

**GrumpyEd** · 05-22-2019

Even finding that these dies are used elsewhere by the Mint doesn't preclude that the piece wasn't intentionally made by a Mint worker, which I believe is most probable. To me, that limits its value to a conversation piece.

Very possible.

People say being unique adds value but I think with coins it does not.
Assume this was made by a mint worker and is unique.
The 1913 liberty nickel might do better even though they were made by a mint worker because having a few means there are enough to make a market for it, the few collectors with big bucks will fight over them. When there is only one it's not the same, it is more of a conversation piece. 1913 liberty nickels have sold for over 3.5 million and made an episode of Hawaii 5-O. I doubt the cent sells for anything near that or gets at TV show LOL.
What coins need is enough examples to make a market but not enough to saturate it.

**VAB2013** · 05-22-2019

Originally Posted by willbrooks

Well, you know, we used to actually have great discussions like this about coins rather than just over-analyzing die cracks and damage all day.

Yes I agree Will, the educational discussions add so much valuable knowledge to our minds! That is the purpose of this forum - and we will all benefit from more knowledge!

**Rowdyricster** · 05-23-2019

Originally Posted by willbrooks

Well, you know, we used to actually have great discussions like this about coins rather than just over-analyzing die cracks and damage all day.

I haven't had a chance to get on here much lately, but when I saw this thread it peaked my interest. I wish I could just sit down with you guys and listen as you discuss topics like this. Very educational thread. Thanks!!

**jfines69** · 05-24-2019

Originally Posted by willbrooks

Well, you know, we used to actually have great discussions like this about coins rather than just over-analyzing die cracks and damage all day.

Nothing wrong with over anal eyesing

when it helps some one learn the process of what happens with the dies... No two people learn at the same rate or by the same methods... Once the basics are understood then individuals graduate to the next step what ever that may be for them... Eventually it leads to discussions like this thread!!!