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Buyer Beware PCGS Misattribution / Mechanical Clerical 1953 FS-402 RED CAM POP 1/0
Buyer Beware PCGS Misattribution / Mechanical Clerical 1953 FS-402 RED CAM POP 1/0
The coin is listed on Ebay and is a misattribution.
I tried to include all information but the formatting was a mess and the images didn't show up. Perhaps some more experienced members can point out the mistake.
Here's the link. I spent 20 minutes doing a write up and the formatting was all messed up. I alerted the seller and here was his response: New message from: segoja(9,078)
Why don’t you buy it and make Pcgs eat it under their grade guarantee.
The coin is actually the FS-101 DDO, worth approx $100 based on auction history. The seller is James Sego. He told me to stop bothering him as he's trying to run a business. The coin was previously for sale at GC, but I notified Ian Russell and the auction was pulled. I'd expected this coin to make its way to PCGS for correction, but seems it just won't happen as nobody cares. It's bad for the hobby. PNG, PCGS Authorized dealers are not supposed to act this way, but its all about the $.
You are correct, its misattributed. I would notify Ebay that is false listing. Regreafutlly they have such a limited drop down menu that you can not write a statement, but it may help to get it pulled under false listings.
Thanks. I guess I expected to much from the seller. He presents himself as a National Expert, PNG Board of Directors, ANA, PCGS Authorized dealer, and founder of the QA sticker approval service. Those people are held to a higher standard. The motto and solemn pledge of the PNG is: Knowledge, Integrity and Responsibility. Their membership standards are supposed to be strict. They make a pledge to not misrepresent rarity, value or quality of items sold.
Then there's the PCGS Authorized Dealer Agreement, Customer Bill of Rights. Courteous Honest Service: Each authorized dealer will at all times give the customer prompt, courteous and efficient service, and, in all of the authorized dealer's transactions with the customer, will observe the highest standards of honesty, integrity, fair dealing and ethical conduct.
Yet with all these ethical obligations what do I get in response: "Why don't you buy it and let Pcgs eat it under their grade guarantee"
Now, not only is this wrong on multiple levels it's also misleading. PCGS does not guarantee obvious clerical or mechanical errors.
In any event, I believe this is exactly the type of unethical behavior that causes irreparable harm to the hobby.
Thank you for taking the time to share this misattribution.
Unfortunately though the seller is listing it as it appears on the PCGS slab.
Isn't that all he needs to do to meet eBay requirements?
I don't think anyone at eBay has the experience or the ability to discern one variety from another?
Edit: I agree totally with the OP.
Maybe directly to PNG, PCGS or even bringing this up on the PCGS discussion board might sway the seller.
The difference is this is not an uninformed seller. This is a nationally recognized expert in the field.
Moreover, I sent him several high resolution images of the known examples of the Variety FS-402 and pointed out the misattribution. The seller knows exactly what he's selling.
Also note, the label does not indicate it's the only Cameo FS-402. The label does not indicate the Price Guide value of $500. The label does not suggest the PNG relationship or state if you want the best, deal with the best. Those are the seller's claims.
Simply put, this seller cannot claim reliance on the label. The seller knows exactly what he's selling and if he didn't beforehand, he certainly knows now.
The reason this happens is if someone goes back to PCGS they may (or may not) say it's a "mechanical error" which can be something wrong on the label and in that case they'll fix the label but will not do a buyback.
I always say they become "hot potatoes" they get passed around and sold often a bit below market for the right variety. Once a buyer knows it's a wrong label they want to sell it and let the next person take the risk. It's sad but true that some dealers will pass them along and tell you to deal with PCGS. When called out on it they probably would take it back but may sell it again. I've seen coins like that with wrong labels sell over and over. Like a hot potato being tossed to the next guy. It's a grey area in the warranty, they word it like if it's obviously not what the label says then it's a mechanical error but with many varieties verifying it is not an obvious task.
Read this part of their warranty, this is the problem:
"A variety attribution that is obviously incorrect. For example, if you had a normal date 1942 Mercury dime, but the PCGS holder showed the coin as a much rarer 1942/1 overdate, this coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee as the date is obviously normal. Another example would be if you had a 1945 Mercury dime with an obviously normal size mint mark, but the PCGS holder showed the coin as a "Micro S." This coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee since the mint mark is obviously normal size."
Thanks GrumpyEd, I'm aware of the policy and in my opinion this is one of those obvious to the naked eye distinctions. I also expect it's purely a clerical mechanical error as nobody in their right mind, knowing anything about varieties would submit this as a 402. It was likely submitted as the FS 101 DDO which it actually is.
I know this happens but dumping it on an unsuspecting buyer isn't the answer, especially when the seller is an expert. PCGS also messed up the then 1st and only 1957 D FS 901 RED quarter. The buyer paid $4,000 for that quarter when at best it's worth $15. To my knowledge he still has it. He too is aware of the above policy.
Thanks for the heads-up regarding this seller. You have gone above and beyond in your efforts to rectify this.
Originally posted by CASMAN
He told me to stop bothering him as he's trying to run a business.
Ebay allows users to save favorite sellers -- I wish they would also allow us to block certain sellers, too.
I completely agree with you about the ethics of doing business this way, however, I also believe in buyer beware and know what you are buying -- Luckily, it is easy to see that this is not re-engraved.
The difference is this is not an uninformed seller. This is a nationally recognized expert in the field.
Moreover, I sent him several high resolution images of the known examples of the Variety FS-402 and pointed out the misattribution. The seller knows exactly what he's selling.
Also note, the label does not indicate it's the only Cameo FS-402. The label does not indicate the Price Guide value of $500. The label does not suggest the PNG relationship or state if you want the best, deal with the best. Those are the seller's claims.
Simply put, this seller cannot claim reliance on the label. The seller knows exactly what he's selling and if he didn't beforehand, he certainly knows now.
I agree with you and like your attempts. A respected professional should not take a flippant attitude like that. That kind of response lowers him to a lower level and sets him apart for the wrong reason.
I like WS suggestion of contacting PNG.
Let us know how this progresses if you pursue it.
Whelp, it took me a bit to put everything together, but filed my Complaint this afternoon with the PNG. Afterall, he challenged me in his last message quoted below to do what I want as he was busy and thought I was trying to play a game...
"Attribution or misattribution is not a mechanical error. U do what you want. I’m not going to play games with u. I don’t have the time or desire to do that. If I started doing that I’d spend all my time playing and I’m trying to run a business"
I'm not expecting much unless they take his seat and make him sit on the floor for a few hours during the next board meeting but I will update.
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