Pre-CUD and Pre-BIE together in one die

[ray_parkhurst]

This morning I did a photo sequence study on some 1955-S Cents that are from the same die as the previously studied BA110-123 sequence, which I also discovered an earlier stage that I'm calling BA109. While that was complicated enough, this die has much more to offer! Turns out my suspicions about even earlier stages was correct, but these stages also have a crossover to a reverse die that broke early in the life of the obverse, and created some listed Pre-CUD breaks. From what I know at this point, here is the sequence:

Several Stages of Pre-CUD, with just a tiny chip on the corner of the E to indicate it will become a BIE
Reverse Die changed
"BA109", with new reverse die
Cohen BA110
Cohen BA111, with new reverse die
Cohen BA114-123, with progressively larger BIE, large chip in the 9, and reverse die cracks

The new info for this thread is in the first two lines above. The BA109 through BA123 info is captured in previous threads.

I found 6 stages of the Pre-CUD die, but the first 2 are pretty boring with just a progressively enlarging die crack in the right wheat, so I focused on the last 4 stages, see the photos below.

Turns out that there are 3 listings for Pre-CUDs on COC that (roughly) correspond to 3 of these stages. The initial stage doesn't show a Pre-CUD break, but IMO is still interesting as it is, I guess, a "pre-Pre-CUD". Maybe only interesting to a nich specialist, we'll see. Anyway, two of the COC listings recognize the other as different stages, but the third listing is not listed as an earlier stage. Perhaps the evidence below will give reason to make a change to the listing...

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First Photographed Stage, has not yet broken out to the rim so no recognition of being a pre-CUD



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Second Photographed Stage, corresponds roughly to COC PC-1C-1955S-13R





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Third Photographed Stage, corresponds roughly to COC PC-1C-1955S-10R Stage A





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Fourth Photographed Stage, corresponds roughly to COC PC-1C-1955S-10R Stage B





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I also made an animation of the 4 photographed stages, but I can't get it to work on the forum. I also posted the animation over on Collectors Universe, and linking to it seems to work:

https://us.v-cdn.net/cdn-cgi/image/f...faqi2mnwxa.gif

[jfines69]

Nice work... I love the pics!!!

[Petespockets55]

Thanks Ray for the info, images, and animated gif.

Your images make it possible to barely see the crack before it continues to the rim.

[jfines69]

Ray... Are you thinking that 10R and 13R are the same die???

[ray_parkhurst]

Ray... Are you thinking that 10R and 13R are the same die???

Yes, for sure they are the same reverse die. 13R is just an earlier stage than 10A and 10B, and the first photo shows the same die in an even earlier stage, before the Pre-CUD die cracks to the rim.

[jfines69]

Looks like you have a convincing argument to change the listing... Way to go!!!