Would you say this is stage(A) 1994P-DER-023T

[tea-party]

I just had to beg my bud to allow me to post this nice beauty.I believe its stage A and I'd like some feed back to confirm it. He found it for sometime now but he wont send it in because he says its attributed already.I hope after this post he'll send it in.:D.This traildie has some of the longest trail lines I've ever seen,it just blows me away.The coin is'nt in bad shape either.

John

[kloccwork419]

Not sure, The one listed as B doesnt show the Die Scratches your showing on CENT. I would think its atleast a new B or later just in great shape. I wouldnt call it stage A

[tea-party]

Not sure, The one listed as B doesnt show the Die Scratches your showing on CENT. I would think its atleast a new B or later just in great shape. I wouldnt call it stage A
I never heard of a new stage B...This is interesting!! Well thank you Jason.

John

[1sgret]

I agree with Jason it looks to be a 023T however it is hard to tell which stage you have.

Nice find! CONGRATS!!!

[kloccwork419]

I never heard of a new stage B...This is interesting!! Well thank you Jason.

John

Well what I mean is one of the stages will get bumped up or down and yours will replace it. I just wouldnt say A because of the scratches but that just my opinion. Id still wait for BJ or Jason to chine in

[Roller]

Beautiful coin.

[georoxx]

Great find and coin.

-George

[1sgret]

You might even get a pleasant surprise in that if you submit the coin to BJ or one of the attributers it may be assigned a completely new file number.:bigsmile:

[hasfam]

Wow. What a superb example of a Trails coin. I totally forgot what the question was after looking at the photos. Great find.

[copperlover]

This TD is just like rays of light coming off the edges of the characters of E. Pluribus Unum. Great find and tell your buddy to keep those eyes open for more like this one.

Lucien

[DoubleYou]

Fantastic trails on that baby! Er, I mean, giant.

[tea-party]

Thank you all and I hope my
Bud do send this beauty in .There may be a surprise!!!

John

[trails]

Talking about stages. At this point in time, unless it is a major trail die, I do not worry about them. If there is a significant difference in a die state, such as a die crack or a changing of one die, then it is of importance. Maybe in the future, we can really concentrate on die stages when most of these trail dies have been discovered.

And speaking of analyzing a set of dies for die stages, I recently worked with John Bordner, president of NCADD, on this 1960D small date Lincoln cent RPM. It is listed as WRPM-141 and on Coppercoins as 1MM-169.

1960-D Lincoln 1¢ Wexler WRPM-141

Description: D/D Tilted

Die Markers:
Obverse: Small Date
Stage A: Small die dot on the bottom of the 9 in the date. NW/SE die scratches below the R and S in TRUST. Very fine N/S die scratches in the field that show best behind the head and below LIBERTY. Die gouge behind the upper right of the R in LIBERTY. Very minute N/S die crack on the shoulder.
Stage B: Die crack on the shoulder extends into the B of the designer’s initials. All stage A die scratches still present. Die dot at the 9 still present. Die gouge at the R in LIBERTY still present.
Stage C: Stage A die scratches are weaker. Die dot at the 9 still present. Die gouge at the R in LIBERTY still present. Die crack on shoulder is stronger.
Stage D: Weak die clash at the 9 in the date. Small die dot on the bottom of the 6 in the date slightly left of center. Heavy die abrasion at the throat. Weak die clash behind the back. Stage A die scratches abraded away. New NE/SW die scratches show best on the left side. Die dot at the 9 still present. Die gouge at the R in LIBERTY still present. Heavier die crack on the shoulder.
Stage E: Stage D die markers still present. Die chip inside the upper opening of the E in LIBERTY. Very weak die crack in the hair above the ear.
Stage F: Stage E die markers still present.
Stage G: Die chip inside the upper hole of the B in LIBERTY. Previous die scratches are weaker.
Stage H: Short N/S die gouge in the field right of center from the E in WE. Weak die crack behind the ear.
Stage I: Most previous die scratches show only weak above the back of the head. Die gouge at WE still present. Remaining die clashes, die chips, die gouges are still present.
Stage J: Die crack behind the ear is stronger. Die crack above the ear is still weak. Die crack on shoulder is strong.
First Reverse:
Stage A: Short die scratch northwest from the rim at 4:00 o’clock.
Stage B: Large die chip inside upper O of ONE and a die crack on the bottom of the O of ONE with a die chip to the left... Scratch from rim still present.
Stage C: Small die break below the left side of the memorial base and along the contour of the left side memorial base.
Stage D: Die scratch from the O of ONE to the memorial base. Very large die chip on the upper left of the memorial base extending into the field. Abraded die clash at the left roof tip. Weak die clash on the right side of the roof.
Second Reverse:
Stage E: Light die scratch SSE from the right side of the U in UNITED to the top of column one. Die damage above the NIT of UNITED most likely caused by a dropped or struck die. Die gouge east from the center bar of the E in ONE.
Stage F: Die scratch from the U in UNITED abraded away. Die damage and die gouge are weaker. Weak depression inside the top of the O in ONE.
Stage G: Die damage only shows above the N in UNITED. Die gouge is very weak. Die chip inside the upper area of the O in ONE.
Stage H: Die clash shows near the left side of the roof. Die clash on the right side of the roof. Marks through STATES may be the remnants of the obverse bust from a die clash. Light depression at the right eave.
Stage I: Stronger die chip on the O in ONE that extends onto the O. Depression below the left side of the memorial base. Stronger depression on right eave. Stage H die clashes still present.
Third Reverse:
Stage J: Very light E/W die scratches through ONE. Die scratch north from the upper right of the N in ONE.

Cross-Reference: BRPM-141
Comments: The stage A die crack is so minor that it has to be magnified and the coin rotated to find. A die can crack during the hubbing process or if they cool too fast.
Grade: BU


BJ Neff

[DoubleYou]

That's intense!

[tea-party]

That's intense! I send this info.. Very interesting!! thanks BJ for the help.. Im hot on the trail..lol

John

[mikes7657]

And speaking of analyzing a set of dies for die stages, I recently worked with John Bordner, president of NCADD, on this 1960D small date Lincoln cent RPM. It is listed as WRPM-141 and on Coppercoins as 1MM-169.

BJ Neff

Interesting. I was having trouble finding this one because I was looking at the coin listed as 1mm-169, and it says die markers have not yet been identified. My coin has the same weak die clash near the 9 of the date and the two die dots under the 9 and 6 of the date. Interestingly, 1mm-118 has what looks like the same two dots and clash, and the die scratches for MDS on the obverse match my coins scratches exactly. So, I have my coin. My next question is are we looking at the same coin? Is 1mm-169 equivalent to 1mm-018, i.e., punched from the same die? They both have die dots at exactly the same position, and the minor clash mark seems to seal the deal.

Sorry to drag out this old topic, but I was interested in this coin because I believe that I have found one. I also think that it might be listed twice.

Mike

[mustbebob]

Mike, You may want to start a new thread for your coin. This thread is about a 1994 trails die and is a few years old. You coin is a 1960 and the search engine would not necessarily take you here.

This thread shows how things can get off topic and the 1960 RPM should not have been put here originally. BJ was just trying to show how crazy it can get if we start listing individual die stages on certain coins.

Starting a new thread will enable us to concentrate on your coin without having to go through all this information about trails dies. You can certainly reference this thread in the new one and please post photos of your coin to help us to help you

[mikes7657]

Thank you. I will do that.