Lincoln Penny 1909 VDB - Rough finish

[Guest]

Hi,

I asked question on another forum and seem to not be a matte proof coin. Because you are Lincoln specialist maybe you can explain what cause rough finish like that. There are some small black dots on 2 sides. This coin is very bright if you look with halogene light. I don't think it is a clean coin but i'm not an expert.

Add some pictures :




















More pictures link :

https://picasaweb.google.com/117763195269856538962/US1Cent1909

Thank you!

CDNum

https://picasaweb.google.com/CDNumStamps/

[Brad]

I do not think it is a matte proof either. The dies on the business strike 1909 VDB must have had a matte surface, because a lot of VDB's have Matte Proof Like surfaces. These dies were used a lot more than the matte proof dies, so eventually they smoothed out. Matte Proofs were struck by different presses so they have better strikes. In order to verify a 1909 VDB matte proof it has to have square rims and the correct diagnostics.

[RWBILLER]

Hi
Brad should know! There are some good Internet sites on matte proofs. Just do a search.

[eaxtellcoin]

The black spots you are seeing on the coin are spots from the oils on someones hand. In otherwords a fingerprint. Do not try to remove, leave the coin alone or trade it for a better example if it bothers you..

[CdNum]

Hi,

Brad : " In order to verify a 1909 VDB matte proof it has to have square rims and the correct diagnostics. "

Rims look squared but probably not too much...





Eaxtellcoin : " trade it for a better example if it bothers you.. "

Maybe it is Victor D. Brenner fingerprint... i keep it... :-)

Seriously, i'm surprise to see these dots on the entire coins. Plus, they look inlaid.

Thank you all!

CDNum

https://picasaweb.google.com/CDNumStamps/

[WaterSport]

Agree its not a Matte. The jury is still out if the "matte" process of supposedly sand blasting the surface to give texture was extended on some dies beyond those for proof coins, or if these dies were left over inteneded dies, or if the MPL dies were used to make some BS strikes.

Now the black marks I am seeing look to me to be bad metal mixture, just like with "woodgrain" finishes.

WS

[pman860507]

There are some really good articles out there on matte proofs i would just google it.

[flyhi3]

Hi,

Brad : " In order to verify a 1909 VDB matte proof it has to have square rims and the correct diagnostics. "

Rims look squared but probably not too much...





Eaxtellcoin : " trade it for a better example if it bothers you.. "

Maybe it is Victor D. Brenner fingerprint... i keep it... :-)

Seriously, i'm surprise to see these dots on the entire coins. Plus, they look inlaid.

Thank you all!

CDNum
https://picasaweb.google.com/CDNumStamps/

It is an AWESOME looking coin for 103 years ago!

[CdNum]

Hi,

Pman860507 : "There are some really good articles out there on matte proofs i would just google it."

Yes, i did it a lot but i cannot find what i want to see... a straight high resolution scan of this coin; not a picture. I read a lot about matte proof and it is a very interesting coin. Mine is not a matte proof as you said but i think effect look like mine... very dull if you look with a normal light and an impressive gold shining effect (like lot of very small diamond) with halogene/bright light. It's incredible and very interesting. I have another 1909 (no VDB) Lincoln penny brow/red but it don't look like that. It is a normal penny.

Flyhi3 : "It is an AWESOME looking coin for 103 years ago! "

This is my first 1909 Lincoln and it is a good one for me :-)

CDNum

https://picasaweb.google.com/CDNumStamps/

[pman860507]

I can post a link when i get home.

Not sure what you're seeing on the coin. More experenced member might. High grade early Lincoln's are beautiful

[Brad]

You need to look at the inside of the rim. Those should be square as well.

[CdNum]

Hi,

Pman860507 : "I can post a link when i get home."

If you can post some links, i will appreciate it.

Very interesting link : http://100greatestmatteprooflincolns.com/ (WOW!)

Brad : "You need to look at the inside of the rim. Those should be square as well."

Yes... look squared (for me) but i think "as well" is very important :-)




Near reality look :




Thank you all!

CDNum

https://picasaweb.google.com/CDNumStamps/

[pman860507]

***LEARNING About Matte Proof Lincolns***


^^Coin talk article. Good read and pictures. more pictures if you scroll down.


Another Article


I will look for more later. For now back to work.

[BadThad]

I do not think it is a matte proof either. The dies on the business strike 1909 VDB must have had a matte surface, because a lot of VDB's have Matte Proof Like surfaces. These dies were used a lot more than the matte proof dies, so eventually they smoothed out. Matte Proofs were struck by different presses so they have better strikes. In order to verify a 1909 VDB matte proof it has to have square rims and the correct diagnostics.

Agree 100%

There's speculation they "recycled" the MPL dies for business strikes or they actually used a light sandblasting technique on the dies. Lots of the 09 VDB's have matte-like fields and nearly square rims. However, the matte finish quickly wore off the dies as they produced millions of coins.

[CdNum]

Hi,

Thank you Pman860507. Very interesting link.

BadThad : "There's speculation they "recycled" the MPL dies for business strikes"

This is probably something like that. Rough surface is very interesting. Look like diamond dust finish if you look with a bright light. I like it :-)

Thank you!

CDNum

https://picasaweb.google.com/CDNumStamps/