1972-P Doubled Die Obverse #4 (?)

[1sgret]

Please comment on this listing especially the attributers and collector's of this 1972 Dbld'd Die Series.
Myself I don't believe this has attributed correctly however I may be wrong.


http://cgi.ebay.com/RAREST-1972-DOUBLED-DIE-4-LINCOLN-CENT-BU_W0QQitemZ370144966761QQihZ024QQcategoryZ524QQss PageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[dvn]

Please comment on this listing especially the attributers and collector's of this 1972 Dbld'd Die Series.
Myself I don't believe this has attributed correctly however I may be wrong.


http://cgi.ebay.com/RAREST-1972-DOUBLED-DIE-4-LINCOLN-CENT-BU_W0QQitemZ370144966761QQihZ024QQcategoryZ524QQss PageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Joe, I took a look at the auction. I know the seller and he is an excellent seller and well-versed in die varieties.

However, with that said, upon close examination of his images in the auction, I can definitively confirm the coin is not Die #4. It is in my "C" files as CDDO-014, in CONECA as DDO-005 and in Wexler as WDDO-010 in accordance with cross-reference file card. It is also on Coppercoins site that Chuck and Bob show in their files as 1972P-1DO-005. Also, my CDDO-014 has a die scratch directly below the letter "E" of WE in the field. Coppercoins 1972P-1DO-005 in Bob's photo of WE he has that same die scratch below the letter "E" of WE in the field. Bob actually points it out with a white arrow as a die marker in the photo.

Now, how do I know this to be confirmed not as Die #4? Go back to his auction. Take a look at the LIBERTY photo. Look south of the letter "B" in the field and you will see a die scratch. That die scratch matches exactly to my CDDO-014 and the other cross-references I mentioned above. Also, go to Coppercoins web site and pull their 1972P-1DO-005 (http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/diestate.php?date=1972&die_id=1972p1do005&die_state=mds) and you will see that same die scratch in Bob's photo of LIBERTY as well.

I also checked with my photos of the real Die #4, which I examined two of them from the late Russ LeBeau. Many of you may have known Mr. LeBeau who had one of the most extensive collections of Lincoln cent varieties to include nearly all of the majors (with the exception of the '58 DDO and he almost got that one but was outbid in that auction for that rare variety). Checking with the photos I have of Die #4, nothing matches.

To summerize, the coin I see images of in the auction you have questions about match exactly to the die markers of my "C" listing as CDDO-014 and not Die #4.

Billy

[1sgret]

Billy:

Nice summation for the attributing markers for the coin and I appreciate your time. I was pretty sure that it was listed incorrectly.

No disrespect intended towards the seller, however I want to be correct that it is a Die #4 prior to bidding, and I did not feel right on this one.

[jcuve]

I am going to have to save a copy of this thread – all of the information spelled out by Billy is fantastic!
Has anyone notified the seller? I have seen their listings before and they always seem correct - they may want to know other's opinions...

I don't think I have seen an accurate die #4 listed on eBay as of yet. Has anyone else?

[dvn]

I don't think I have seen an accurate die #4 listed on eBay as of yet. Has anyone else?

Jason, at least for me, I have not seen one. That's not to say there hasn't been one. I could have missed it.

Speaking only for myself, if I had a genuine Die #4, and if I was going to put it up for auction (which BTW I don't have one in my personal collection), before I did put it up for auction, I would have other attributer's such as Bob, Wexler, etc. examine the coin and verify that it is truly Die #4.

Then, I would go another step further, I would send the coin to a reputable third-party grading service (PCGS or NGC or ANACS) and have them grade, certify and encapsulate the coin so as to leave no doubts about the coin's authenticity.

Then, after all that was done, I would put it up for auction. Of course, by then, I would also be asking BIG BUCKS for the coin!!!!

Anyway, that's the way I would do it.

Billy

[jcuve]

There was one a few months back in an old slab (I think it was PCI? But it may have been another). I emailed the seller and inquired about the rim cuds that the CPG speaks of. The seller couldn't find them, nor could he confirm in any way if it was indeed die #4. The coin sold anyway, I think it was over $400...

Billy, your advice is great. With a coin like that, which looks like another die (die #5) it would be best to have it triple checked. Of course most eBay sellers are either ignorant or just don't give a [hoot] and sell garbage. And of course if I had a die #4 I wouldn’t be selling it – LOL – I would love to have a die #4…

[dvn]

... And of course if I had a die #4 I wouldn’t be selling it – LOL – I would love to have a die #4…

You and a whole bunch of other collectors! (To include me!)

Die #4 is the key to making the 1972 DDO set. A genuine, certified, encapsulated Die #4 could easily bring 4 figures.

And your right, like you, if I did have one, I wouldn't be selling it, unless someone made me an offer I REALLY couldn't refuse!

Billy

[1sgret]

sI would totally agree with you Billy and I am really hesitant to but a raw Die #4.

I have never seen a real Die #4 on E-bay listings nor any of the auction house. So I
am still looking and I will find one. If properly certified I would pay the extra to obtain the Die #4 (If with-in reason).

[RWBILLER]

Joe:
Thanks for the link, it certainly confirms my die4.
Thanks again
Roger

[dvn]

Wavy by by ... cul auction (http://cgi.ebay.com/RAREST-1972-DOUBLED-DIE-4-LINCOLN-CENT-BU_W0QQitemZ370144966761QQihZ024QQcategoryZ524QQss PageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem).

Billy

[mustbebob]

I would expect nothing else from these folks than to pull the auction as they did. They are good people, and do listen.