1909 -P Variety Test ???

[Justafarmer]

You remember those test questions in grade school? You know the question where you drew a line from an item in column 1 to the matching item in column 2. So here is the question can you draw a line from Group A, Group B or Group C to the matching item in one of the other groups?


GROUP A
WDDO-001, DDO-001, 1-O-IV, FS-01.012.00, 1DO-001, CDDO-001, B-2053
WDDO-002, DDO-002, 2-O-VI, FS-01.012.10, 1DO-002
WDDO-003
WDDR-001, DDR-001, 1-R-II-C
WDDR-002
WDDR-003
WDDR-004
WDDR-005, DDR-005, 5-R-VI
WDDR-006
WDDR-007
WDDR-008
WDDR-009
WDDR-010
WDDR-011
WDDR-012
WDDR-013
WDDR-014
WDDR-015
WDDR-016
WDDR-017

GROUP B　
DDR-002, 2-R-VI
DDR-003, 3-R-IV+VIII
DDR-004, 4-R-VI
DDR-006, 6-R-VI
DDR-007, 7-R-II+VI
DDR-008, 8-R-VI
DDR-009, 9-R-II-V+VI
DDR-010, 10-R-VI
DDR-011, 11-R-II-C+VI

GROUP C
1DR-001, - I think this matches WDDR-001 in Group A ???
1DR-002, - I Think this matches WDDR-002 in Group A ???
1DR-003
1DR-004
1DR-005

[Justafarmer]

Several views but no takers I see. Certainly there are not 34 different varieties for the 1909-P Lincoln Cent? You don 't have to connect them all. No one can even make 1 connection of a listing in group A, B or C to another group?

[mustbebob]

Sorry, I just don't understand the purpose of this. I am assuming it is a game of sorts, but it would require printing the text, researching the cross references, and then how do we reply here? It is a lot of work. You can't draw lines. All good intentions, but it might just be a little too confusing to work a game like this here. Most people have their favorite numbering system and do not necessarily care about cross references. Of course this is my opinion only.

[coppercoins]

What I was thinking when I read this thread...

"way too much work."

[Maineman750]

I looked last night and thought "way too late"...now I'm thinking "way too early"...but thanks for trying :angel:

[Justafarmer]

Sorry for the confusion. Wasn’t asking people to do a lot of extra work. Just thought that some people here may have already made a connection or two during the course of building their own collection. Generally speaking, from an anecdotal perspective, the varieties that have been cross-referenced seem to carry a higher premium. Which only makes sense because the coin appeals to a larger number of collectors. Those who favor one plus those that favor the other or both numbering systems.

As far as providing an answer - a simple statement such as
"I think you can draw a line from 1DR-002 in GROUP C to WDDR-002 in GROUP A."

And you are right this may be information that myself or a small minority here is interested in and for the rest is unimportant. But you never know until you ask.

[coppercoins]

1. Because the information is cross referenced between listing systems usually means the variety has been known for more time and that it is readily visible and there is no question as to what it is. The little flyspeck stuff doesn't always garner the interest of all attributors, thus is hit or miss in whether it is listed in one place or another. Additionally, since most of the attribution systems are not publicly available to see, there's no telling in most cases whether a cross reference exists that is not being made due to lack of public information.

2. I doubt that a small minority here is 'interested' in knowing the cross reference information for 1909 doubled dies. The post was posed as a test - one that nobody here would want to invest the dozen or so hours it would take to complete the task for bragging rights alone. From the way your post reads, it seemed you already had the answers and was wondering if anyone else here could get it right.

If it had been posed as a question with a referenced list of die numbers it might have been handled differently by those who read it.

To add, only those dies listed on coppercoins.com are known by me at this time, and only the cross reference information publicly available on coppercoins.com is what I know. I can tell you that - as a type - doubled die reverses on 1909 plain cents are common. Die for die they could be scarce. I know I have over a dozen examples sitting in my rainy day box to attribute. I check the reverses of every 1909 cent I run into at shows and almost never manage to leave a show without having bought a couple of decent AU-Unc 1909P cents exhibiting doubling on the reverse.

Sorry I cannot be of any help with your question posed as a test. All I know is listed on the site. As new information comes available, I change what's on the site to match what I learned.

[jcuve]

I suppose you could bounce between coppercoins.com, doubleddie.com, Wiles DVD book and varietyvista.com and cross reference some of them. But as noted, that would just be a nightmare task. A challenge like this might be easier and more fun if the varieties were more well known, or fewer in number.

[Justafarmer]

The test was my attempt at posing the question in a cute/fun format. Just trying to flush out some information that others here may already learned while building their own collection. The intent wasn’t for each individual member to complete the test themselves. I envisioned the entire LCR Community working together as a group using their collective knowledge making one connection at a time to complete as much of the test as WE could. A member providing one or two connections then the next building on that by adding another. There wasn't any pass or failing marks to be handed out - just a process, I believed, could create an outcome benefiting every member in the end.

[seal006]

We are a very dysfunctional family.

[Justafarmer]

If I were to expand the test through 1925 - the best I can tell the additional part of the test would look like this

GROUP A
1909-s – wrpm-001, rpm-002, 01.012.30, 1mm-002, 2058, vcr1rpm1
1909-s – wrpm-002, rpm-001, 01.012.20, 1mm-001
1909-s – ddo-md-001, md-1-o-vii
1910-s - wrpm-001. Rpm-001, 1mm-001, vcr1rpm1
1910-s – wrpm-002, rpm-002, .01.012.70, 1mm-002, vcr1rpm2
1910-s – wrpm-003, rpm-003
1911-d – womm-001, rpm-005
1911-d – wrpm-001, rpm-001, 01.012.80, 1mm-001
1911-d – wrpm-002, rpm-002, 01.012.81, 1mm-002, crpm-002
1911-d – wrpm-003, rpm-003, 01.012.82, 1mm-003, crpm-003
1911-d – wrpm-004, rpm-004, 01.012.83, 1mm-004
1911-s – wrpm-001, rpm-001, 01.012.85, 1mm-001
1911-s – wrpm-002, rpm-002
1912-s – wrpm-001, rpm-001, 1mm-001
1912-s – wrpm-002
1913-s – 1mm-001
1915-d – wrpm-001, rpm-001, 1mm-001
1915-d – wddo-001
1915-d – wrpm-001
1916-p – 1dr-001
1916-s – 1mm-001, crpm-001
1917-d – wrpm-001
1917-p – wddo-001, ddo-001, 1-o-v-ccw, 01.013.00, 1do-001, cddo-001, 2081
1918-d – wrpm-001, rpm-001,
1918-d – wrpm-002
1919-d – wrpm-001, rpm-001, 1mm-001
1919-s – wrpm-001, rpm-001, 1mm-001
1921-s – wddr-001
1922-d – 01.013.20, 2096
1923-p – 1do-001
1923-s – wrpm-001
1924-p – ddo-001, 1-o-vi
1924-p – ddr-001, 1-r-vi
1924-s – wddr-001, ddr-001, 1-r-vi
1924-s – wrpm-001, rpm-001, 1mm-001
1924-s – ddo-001, 1-o-vi
1925-d – wrpm-001
1925-d – wrpm-002
1925-p – wddo-001
1925-s – wddo-001, ddo-001, 1-o-vi, 01.013.30, 1do-001, cddo-001
1925-s – wrpm-001, rpm-001, 01.013.31, 1mm-001, crpm-001, 2103, vcr1rpm1
1925-s – wrpm-002, rpm-003, 1mm-003, crpm-003, vcr1rpm2
1925-s – wrpm-003, rpm-002, 1mm-002, crpm-002,
1925-s – wrpm-004, rpm-004, 1mm-004, crpm-004
1925-s – wrpm-005, rpm-005, 1mm-005, crpm-005
1925-s – wrpm-006
1925-s – wrpm-007
GROUP B
1918-d – rpm-002
1923-s – rpm-001
1925-s – rpm-006
GROUP C
1911-d – 1om-001
1915-d – 1do-001
1024-p – 1dr-001
1925-d – 1mm-001
1925-s – 1mm-006

[seal006]

Wouldn't it be much easier to go to CC? They already have this info.

[Justafarmer]

Wouldn't it be much easier to go to CC? They already have this info.

No offense intended in this reponse to you or anybody else but review the groupings again. If all the information was available on CC or John Wexler's or CONECA's website I wouldn't have posed this poorly constructed question.

[mustbebob]

This post has promise, but not for what it was initially intended. As a game, it is a bit difficult. As a source to update cross references, it has great potential.
Coppercoins lists cross references as a courtesy to our viewers. We are not required to list them at all. However, trying to match minor ones is effectively impossible based on what is out there. If you have positive cross reference data, I will be happy to update the site. Remember though, Chuck's site is using this info as a courtesy only.

[Magers]

The fact that I can even read and make sense of any of this, makes me feel like I have made some progress in the past year. I know all the references except the VCR1RPM1 and 01.012.30. What are these numbers from?

[onecent1909]

VCR is Ken Potter's reference system...

[Arjohn]

As a newbie -- I was thinking .oO(What am I getting myself into -- a new language??):cry:

[Magers]

VCR is Ken Potter's reference system...
Nice, now what is the decimal point reference?

[Scott99]

Nice, now what is the decimal point reference?

Think it's the old CPG numbers.

[Magers]

Well then, looks like I'm up to date on my lingo now. Thank you.

[onecent1909]

yes the decimals are old fs numbers.. the back of the cherry pickers guide has a conversion old and new numbering system...