1909 VDB Strange letters

[pennies4pennies]

I have this 1909 VDB that has strange letters. Do you think it's just die wear or a lose die? The out field next to the rim is filled as you can see in the pictures. Any thoughts?

[simonm]

It has the appearance of MD, Frank. My honest opinion would be loose die.

[ray_parkhurst]

Agreed, looks like "strike doubling" or "machine doubling". I have not seen many '09 with this characterstic...

[pennies4pennies]

What looks like MD isn't. There is no flat section. It's a taper from the top of the letter down to the field. Looks like MD but it's not. It's not a DDO either. As I said before I think the die was loose causing the strike to more north as it came down. But the field next to the rim, I would think it would not be filled. A very loose die could cut next to the rim like that. Liberty shows a northward push at the top of the letters and at the top of the coin at the motto it pushes south. Strange it is going 2 different directions.

[GrumpyEd]

Looks like MD to me. It took a step out of liberty coming from the NE.

[ray_parkhurst]

"MD" covers this type of damage. I see both flat areas and areas of displaced metal, so the die may have vibrated and "re-struck" the coin multiple times from different directions as it was rising after the strike.

[pennies4pennies]

As you can see the top of the letter and the field. There is no flat section, just a taper down to the field.
http://lincolncentresource.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=71204&d=1365060853 (http://lincolncentresource.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=71204&d=1365060853)

[GrumpyEd]

I can see that it's not flat on, it looks more like the devices caught on the die as it ejected.
I guess you could call it ejection doubling but it's still damage from contact with the die just after the strike and fits MD as well.

It would be neat if you could see high speed pics of it happening :)

[coppercoins]

This is called "eject doubling" - it is a form of machine doubling that occurs when the die sticks to the coin while the coin is being pushed out of the minting chamber. As with any other machine doubling, it carries no premium value.

[jcuve]

It's a hybrid of push type and slide type machine doubling. The die pushed and slid against the die. That piled up metal in LIBERTY was scraped up by the hammer die.

[SDP73]

Cool coin Frank. Thanks for sharing. I disagree that it carries no premium. I think it is a great conversation piece and I'd pay to own it.

[papascoins]

Interesting story on this coin! And, fantastic pics Frank! Maybe this coin error carries no premium, but it sure looks like a rare occurance to happen to just one coin. Plus, for a 1909, it is in excellent shape!

[mikediamond]

"Ejection doubling" is visually indistinguishable from the subtype of machine doubling called "slide doubling". And slide doubling can clearly be caused by a lateral shift of a die or die assembly. While the scenario invoked by the phrase "ejection doubling" is possible, in reality there is no way to distinguish this cause from "ejection doubling" caused by die movement. For images of severe slide doubling, consult this article: http://www.coinworld.com/Articles/ViewArticle/dynamic-die-misalignments-sometimes-caught-in

[pennies4pennies]

Nice article Mr. Diamond. I was going to send this to some one to see. It's the first time I ever saw anything like it. Being a 1909 VDB I thought it could be worth something. Can't win them all. Still a very interesting coin. I don't know how rare something like this would be. It really don't matter at this time. I want to thank everybody for there replies. Still debating to sell or keep. I was going to send it to be slab to see what they would of wrote on the label. Heck $10 wouldn't break me, besides it is a VDB. Nice low MS coin or high AU. Thanks for all the help. I would think some people learn a thing or two from this.

[jcuve]

Frank, here are some examples of extreme slide doubling: http://error-ref.com/slide-doubling.html

[pennies4pennies]

Thanks Jason. I find these coins very interesting.