2012 DDO with trails.

[Jacob]

Im curious doesnt the 2012 1DO-001 have trails coming off liberty? If so why isnt it mentioned?

[coppercoins]

The images on the website do not indicate to me that there are trails on this die. I did not photograph it, so I do not know first hand.

[Jacob]

Heres the coin. You can see the trails coming off of motto too.

[coppercoins]

Two thoughts...

1. That could be a different die.
2. Those lines could have been placed on the die mid-production, thus some coins with and some coins without them.

[cimperialis]

Two thoughts...

1. That could be a different die.
2. Those lines could have been placed on the die mid-production, thus some coins with and some coins without them.

Do we know of dies with trails that are present in mid or late stages, but absent in early stages?

[coppercoins]

Have we ever looked for them? How would you know unless there were other attributes that made them stand out?

You're asking if there are any trail dies known where there are normal looking coins tied to them as earlier die states.

The answer, of course, is no.

I am still of the belief that these are caused by die polishing (nothing has been proven otherwise) which can certainly happen on doubled dies, and it can certainly happen after the die is placed into use. So my supposition is that it is possible, which is why I posed the possibility.

[Scott99]

I just checked both of mine. Neither of my 1DO-001 have trails. Most likely a different die.

[cimperialis]

The answer, of course, is no.


Thanks, that's all I was asking- if we know of any examples of it. Nothing here supports nor refutes the polishing theory.

[Jacob]

Ok then its not 1DO-001. Im just confused because looking at this I can clearly see its a DDO. Its similar to the 003 but right side of Y is fat where as 003 left side is. All the letters in Liberty is fat like the 003 though. Now I looked at trail dies site and seen 021T. If thats the die then why isnt that listed as a DDO along with trail dies?

Edit: Also all of Liberty has trails not just the Y. It was hard to capture it all with me camera.

[Scott99]

Trails can definitely be hard to capture, but I am thinking this is 021T as well.

[Jacob]

Trails can definitely be hard to capture, but I am thinking this is 021T as well.

The picture on the site I cant see the thickness in Liberty well because of a light glare.

[papascoins]

Hi Jake. I found one my Trail-Die Coins 2012P-1DEO-021T. I took these photos. It sure looks like the 2012P-1DO-001. My coin is a much later die state than the one in CC. (I didn't attach all of the marker pics to show any differences. Mine has a lot of die metal flow, and a large die crack with a chip, right where Bob photographed his 'marker' on top of the shield.)

Thanks

[Scott99]

and a large die crack with a chip, right where Bob photographed his 'marker' on top of the shield.


The shape of the die crack is a lot different. (http://www.lincolncentresource.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=70149&d=1363682801)

[willbrooks]

I am still of the belief that these are caused by die polishing (nothing has been proven otherwise) which can certainly happen on doubled dies, and it can certainly happen after the die is placed into use. So my supposition is that it is possible, which is why I posed the possibility.

I remember you suggesting this before, and I thought it made a lot of sense, but then I thought BJ said that there exist trails on incuse devices as well, which would seem to be strong evidence to the contrary.(Unless the polishing happened on a master die, but then there would be a LOT of cents that looked the same.) Let me try to find the thread. Maybe I remember it wrong. I like your hypothesis, though, and I think it could explain the wavy steps as well, since the polishing bristles could also gather the recessed columns and then create the trail on the die into the step area.

edit: I couldn't find the exact thread for which I was searching, but I do see that this topic has been discussed in depth previously, with both sides making strong points.

[coppercoins]

Ok then its not 1DO-001.

Well, that's not what I said. There is still a chance that they are the same die. My opinion is that trails are not always on the die when it is entered into service making coins, just like clashes and polish lines are not necessarily on the die when it is entered into service.

In all likelihood you probably have a different die there...but do not summarily discount the possibility that trails are not created on the die when the die is created, and that they could develop on the die during its use. To my knowledge there is no evidence either way.

Another thing to consider is that traildies.com and coppercoins.com are two separate sources, two separate services. They have two different creators who differ in belief as to what trail dies are. I would only list trail dies as a marker on a doubled die if they are strong and I believe they could definitively assist in identifying the die. I do not believe them to be a die variety unto themselves, so I do not list them on the site. That's the purpose of traildies.com. Just because one does not list the attributes of the other on their site doesn't mean they don't both exist on the same dies.

My website lists doubled dies, repunched mintmarks, and over mintmarks. That's all. I don't list die cracks, die chips like BIE cents, clash marks, or other die error anomalies that occur during the minting process. Given that, and given my belief in what trail dies are, I wouldn't list those either. I personally think they are die polish marks and nothing has been presented to me to make me think otherwise. This DOES NOT mean that I think they are uninteresting or worthless...they just aren't die varieties, and that's the focus of my site.

[papascoins]

The shape of the die crack is a lot different. (http://www.lincolncentresource.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=70149&d=1363682801)


I see that Matthew. I don't know what to say, maybe someone will chime in to solve this die question.