Is 1979D cent a uniface experimental coin?

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  • Lucas77
    Banned
    • May 2013
    • 12

    #1

    Is 1979D cent a uniface experimental coin?

    I discovered this mystery coin in a machined rolled box of pennies from the bank. My first impression, when I found the 1979D cent (see attachments), was that it was a split planchet error.

    However, because this 1979D penny weighed in at 2.87 grams, I determined it was too heavy to be this type of error. Next, I considered the possibility it was a uniface rolled-thin planchet error. While highly unlikely, I found this coin does exhibit a fine proto-rim (see attachment) on its blank reverse and a slight bevel (see fourth attachment with image of top portion of edge, towards reverse side, showing this fine beveling as a dark line). The fine reverse proto-rim and beveling would seem to discount that this cent had its reverse device and design defaced by having been tooled/machined down after it left the mint; otherwise, there would be no proto-rim extending over the edge of this cent to its blank reverse side.

    I next considered the possibility this odd coin was a mint-made experimental cent meant to test pure copper plated only to the rims and edge of an underlying brass planchet (due to yellow brassy appearance). The reason I think the rims and edge are plated in pure copper is because they both appear peach/pink-like in color -- which is the correct color appearance for untarnished pure copper (see attachments). The process that may have been used for plating the suspected pure copper on this coin may have been "brush plating" or some other unknown process. For comparison purposes, I found online a similar coin for your review -- the 1989 Canadian $1 Mackenzie River commemorative coin which is described as being composed of silver with a copper rim.

    There are obviously some caveats with respect to this coin being an experimental coin. First, the mint has denied that plating experiments took place with respect to the development of the post-1981 copper plated zinc penny. However, the Mint has been less than forthcoming with respect to revealing its experimental secrets and, even, general Mint processes --the 1974 bronze cladded steel cent struck on regular Lincoln dies is a case in point. Second, there are scratches over the reverse face of the 1973D cent that appear to be tooling marks -- the final question is whether these marks were created at the mint or post-mint.

    If this is an experimental coin, I believe one possibility for these tooling marks is that they are the result of the Mint creating an experimental planchet on the cheap. Based on this theory, instead of making nonsense dies (which is a time consuming process), the Mint may have created this odd coin by tooling down the blank before it was put through the upset mill; thereby reducing its weight so if it ever were inadvertently released by the Mint, no one would suspect it was an experimental coin. The fine reverse proto-rim on this cent overlaps these marks. Therefore, the apparent tooling marks on the 1979D cent would have been placed on the blank before it went through the upset mill and before it was finally struck as a planchet in the coining press.

    Next to muddy the waters, the Mint may have then struck this underweight planchet by unconventionally placing two planchets in the coining press' collar at the same time, while lowering the standard pressure normally used for striking (based on obverse design elements on 1979D cent appearing to have been weakly struck). Under this scenario, two uniface struck coins would have been created -- one with the obverse image from the hammer die and one with the reverse image from the anvil die. I may have discovered the uniface struck obverse of this 1979D cent. Similar to the Mint creating an underweight planchet by tooling this coin, the Mint may have performed the foregoing unconventional minting procedure to obscure that it had created an experimental cent in case it were ever to be inadvertently released into circulation.

    As a side note, this coin appears to have been improperly annealed as there is pitting that can be clearly seen on its reverse, rims and edge.

    Finally, it is also possible this coin is the result of a post-mint alteration. I do not know, however, why anybody would create such a time-consuming alteration (or even have the means to do it outside a mint) and then place it into general circulation -- just for fun.

    In my opinion, this is truly a great numismatic brain teaser. If any of you have any advice on this oddball 1973D cent, I would welcome your comments. Thanks for your assistance in advance.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Lucas77; 05-15-2013, 09:15 PM. Reason: spelling correction
  • simonm
    Member
    • Sep 2010
    • 6398

    #2
    Is there a way you could format your pictures in a way so I don't have to download them to my computer to view them?
    From what I can see, it is a damaged cent (may have also been cleaned, giving it that color). The lack of raised proto-rims on the reverse cannot be from a full uniface strike. Personally, I think you are way over-analyzing what you have. It would not be time-consuming to alter this coin. All one would need to do is press it to a belt-sander, and presto, no reverse design. Sorry, but you just have a normal coin that was altered outside the mint.
    Last edited by simonm; 05-15-2013, 09:50 PM.
    My old coin album.

    Comment

    • Antiquity
      Member
      • Jan 2011
      • 1590

      #3
      Holy long walk for a short drink of water, Batman.
      THOMAS J.

      Comment

      • GrumpyEd
        Member
        • Jan 2013
        • 7229

        #4
        Can you put in a pic of the reverse showing the proto rim you're talking about?

        Based on the weight and description it sounds like it could be a normal cent with reverse sanded/filed away. It's missing about the right amount of weight for that.

        Comment

        • papascoins
          Member
          • Mar 2011
          • 1202

          #5
          This coin looks painted or stained with something, then cleaned. And the reverse design was probably removed like Simon said. Someone actually put more time into this coin than you did! LOL
          Mark

          Comment

          • Jacob
            Member
            • Jun 2012
            • 1737

            #6
            Wow now thats alot of typing for one coin. I think thats a new record.
            Life is not about greatness but on the impact of good onto others. It is a matter of how much one shines. Explains why I like shiny coins.

            Comment

            • cimperialis
              Member
              • Mar 2011
              • 1968

              #7
              Definitely PMD. You can see the scratch marks on the reverse from the copper being filed away.
              -Sean
              Search started in Sep 2011. 913,650 cents searched as of 9/24/13.

              Comment

              • Lucas77
                Banned
                • May 2013
                • 12

                #8
                Update to thread -- suspected experimental 1979(d) lincoln cent:

                Despite the comments, I had the 1979(D) coin XRF tested (by Applied Technical Services) -- it has 2% Silicon in its alloy mix. This is way above any impurities that may have been accidentally mixed in. The full metallurgical assay reported the following findings: 92.40% Copper; 4.56% Zinc; 2.06% Silicon; 0.05% Iron; 0.04% Nickel; 0.71% Aluminum; 0.08% Potassium; and 0.10% Sulfur.

                NGC indicated to me that it would only report on its slabs those elements, that are identified by alloy testing, with at least 1% or more of content. My coin was found to have over 2% Silicon.

                Moreover, the filing marks, as I pointed out, may have been filed on the coin by mint experimenters to perform this experiment on the cheap. Maybe some of you remember the controversy regarding the experimental 1974 bronze plated steel Lincoln Cent struck with standard Lincoln dies (on the cheap); instead of pattern dies that the Mint had originally intended to use? Consider, for comparison, the unique uniface Jefferson Nickel Die Trial for comparison -- Judd #JC1938-1. Also consider the 1910 Wheat Cent uniface test strike.

                I did provide images showing, on the reverse, the peach appearing metal just flowing over the edge of this cent -- my belief is that this was from a copper plating experiment. I will have to to have further tests performed on the edge since the XRF instruments were unable to test such as thin plating that may have been plated to the edge of this coin. The peach color is clearly contrasted from the color of the filed down reverse -- toned brown; and pink or peach is the color of untoned pure copper. This color contrast was not addressed by the comments to this thread.

                Finally, the clincher.[/B] In the Annual Report of the Secretary of the Treasury on the State of Finances, Fiscal Year 1980 (ran from October 1, 1979 to September 30, 1980), it was reported: "During the fiscal year, the market price of copper briefly rose to the level at which the materials comprising the 1-cent coin nearly equaled its face value. As a result the Mint conducted a comprehensive study to find less expensive substitute material. . . . Many different materials were studied for factors such as cost and availability, and were tested for wear, appearance, and coining characteristics. The study concluded that the present 95 percent copper, 5 percent zinc cent should be replaced by an alloy of 99.2 percent zinc, 0.8 percent copper, barrel electroplated with copper." See Annual Report of the Secretary of the Treasury on the State of Finances, Fiscal Year 1980, p. 190.

                More evidence? Yes! On page 189 of that same Report, the Department of Treasury reported: "With the purpose of assisting the public in distinguishing the Susan B. Anthony dollar coin from the quarter, the Mint conducted a study during fiscal 1980 to determine what changes could be made to the dollar to improve visual and tactile discrimination. The Study concluded that the outer layers of the coin could be changed to brass colored alloy consisting of 96 percent copper, 2.5 percent aluminum, and 1.5 percent silicon. While my coin is clearly a penny, not a SBA dollar, the Mint indicated that, during 1979-1980, it was clearly experimenting with Silicon in its experimental alloys." Further, the 1979(D) Lincoln Cent may have been struck as a proto-experiment for determining the viability of the plating material on the SBA dollar.

                Finally, besides my now tested 1979(D) Lincoln Cent, I know of no other coin, released into general circulation, that has been reported to have 1% or more Silicon in its alloy mix.

                If authenticated, this will be the first known Low Silicon Bronze (a bronze with 2-3% silicon) coin in American numismatics!
                Last edited by Lucas77; 11-22-2013, 01:04 AM. Reason: grammar

                Comment

                • enamel7
                  Paid Member

                  • Apr 2009
                  • 4041

                  #9
                  I suspect maybe the chemical used to clean it had a silicone base and the test picked up this residue. Looks damaged to me.

                  Comment

                  • Lucas77
                    Banned
                    • May 2013
                    • 12

                    #10
                    Is 1979D cent a uniface experimental coin?

                    Hi everybody,

                    I have just posted an update to my original thread regarding suspected 1979D uniface experimental coin. Please review the final reply to my original post (the thread, directly below, will link you to an update on this likely experimental coin). You will also learn some important historical information regarding the coin experiments performed by the Mint during Fiscal Year 1980 (October 1, 1979 through September 30, 1980).

                    Lucas77

                    Comment

                    • Lucas77
                      Banned
                      • May 2013
                      • 12

                      #11
                      All are entitled to their opinion; however, I do have the XRF testing demonstrating that I have a likely experimental coin. The tester who tested this coin stated on the metallurgical assay report -- "Surface prepared by cleaning with ACS grade ethnol and light wiping." This was the uniface reverse side of the coin with the filing marks and ethanol has no effect on toning on coins. The reason the tester did this was to obtain an accurate test utilizing an advanced XRF device -- the Rigaku WD-XRF analyzer.
                      Last edited by Lucas77; 11-22-2013, 04:21 AM.

                      Comment

                      • kloccwork419
                        Banned
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 6800

                        #12
                        The coin is damaged. THATS ALL. If you didn't want other opinions and were planning on NOT believing them then why write your novel of a question. Your coin is nothing but damage. GO ahead and waste your money on whatever it is you think you have and when your find out that your the only one wrong, stop by and let us throw it in your face.

                        Comment

                        • Maineman750
                          Administrator

                          • Apr 2011
                          • 12065

                          #13
                          While speculation on your part is great,is there a reason you have not had this coin examined by an error expert,then slabbed ?
                          https://www.ebay.com/sch/maineman750...75.m3561.l2562

                          Comment

                          • Lucas77
                            Banned
                            • May 2013
                            • 12

                            #14
                            All I can say is I have the XRF test results, partially verifying my theory -- that this most likely is an experimental coin. The negative responses, hoping for the worst, simply will not change the professional certified XRF results I have in my possession. The coin is probably an experimental coin and if I decide to have it authenticated, the professionals will have the last word. As I pointed out, this coin was struck in the same fiscal year that the Mint was experimenting with alternative alloys for pennies and SBA dollars; including the experimental use of silicon in the experimental SBA dollar. As with any coin sent in for authentication/grading, there are sometimes positive outcomes and sometimes negative outcomes -- I am willing to take the chance.

                            It would be nice if there were some considerate, constructive comments, instead of all the negative insults and potshots.

                            Comment

                            • Lucas77
                              Banned
                              • May 2013
                              • 12

                              #15
                              Hi Maineman750,

                              Yes, the reason I have not attempted to have the coin slabbed, yet, is because I may decide to have the edge tested to determine if it is composed of pure copper. Further, when I posted the original thread a number of months ago, I noticed a number of unconstructive, insulting comments. There really is no need for such behavior. The purpose of my new thread is to give coin collectors an update regarding this possible experimental coin. I would have hoped there would be some fellow coin collectors cheering me on.

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