What Grade would you give this? (warning large image)

[Antiquity]

Wanted opinions, thanks!

http://www.lincolncentresource.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=498&pictureid=7270

[1jackel1]

Hi i would grade this coin just by appearance about an ms 62 to 63 rd.

George

[seal006]

Excellent photos. I am the world's worst at grading coins. I far undergrade, way too often. I would be interested in what folks like Thad would grade it at. I want to know more about grading, and what effects the dings above the second 8, as well as the tinge of what looks like verdigris below the steps, would have.

[Maineman750]

I'd say MS-63 red.

[coop]

Nice RDV006. MS62

[Antiquity]

Interesting, ANACS sent it back as a MS66RD, I can only assume that the luster and eye appeal of the coin played a factor in their grade because it does have more hits than I normally see on a nice high MS grade. Thanks to those who chipped in.

[seal006]

Interesting, ANACS sent it back as a MS66RD, I can only assume that the luster and eye appeal of the coin played a factor in their grade because it does have more hits than I normally see on a nice high MS grade. Thanks to those who chipped in.

Amazing, and congrats. That is a nice high dollar variety you have there. Did you pull it from circulation? OBW roll maybe? Very sweet Thomas and and so jealous.

[Antiquity]

I actually pulled it out of a bank bag I ordered from Dan. Amazing to find it in such great shape out in the wild.

[rlm's cents]

I do not sure about the 66, but I could easily see a 65 or better. They grade typically with the naked eye and that is a big disadvantage in using giant pictures. All the little nicks that you cannot see in hand look like craters. How many nicks can you see in those fields in hand? 1 or 2? You probably cannot see any on the bust unless you use a loupe. The reverse is nearly mark free even with your gigantic pictures. Assuming that it has nice luster, 65 for sure and better with great luster.

[BadThad]

Memorials usually get a 1 point bump compared to wheats. I'd call this closer to a 65 but like RLM said, it comes down to luster. All of the majors will ignore a few hits for nice luster.

[Brad]

Hard to tell how much luster it has. I would say MS62-64. MS63RD is a safe grade.

[bknumismatics]

I would go for 63RD, possibly a 64RD candidate but I will stick with 63. Nice LMC!

[GrumpyEd]

It's nice but 66 is a stretch. I think 64 is more realistic.

[Antiquity]

Appreciate all the feedback. RLM, I hadn't even noticed the hits in the field till I took the pictures.

I think this will be a good candidate for my first submission to PCGS, just to satisfy my curiosity. I know they wont designate the RDV but I will have it re holdered when the new CPG comes out.

Not sure when I will get around to it as I dont have a local coin dealer that submits to PCGS so I will have to join their collectors club. Will update this post whenever I get around to it. Thanks again all!

[jhcons]

Excellent photos. I am the world's worst at grading coins. I far undergrade, way too often. I would be interested in what folks like Thad would grade it at. I want to know more about grading, and what effects the dings above the second 8, as well as the tinge of what looks like verdigris below the steps, would have.

I to have always under graded. Before I steered new collection I wanted to get my grading skills a lot better. What has helped me I think is I downloaded pcgs's photo guide and really studied it and read it in detail. Went thru a few of my coin boxes graded them and then went thru each coin while matching them up with the photo and figuring out what I did wrong or what I missed. That helped a bunch with the circulated stuff.
The mint state coins are a little more difficult. I have only received a few coins that are above what I expected and one was a 1909 v.d,b from brad. I am going to get a few different ms coins from him of different grades and base my mint state grades on his. I am sure that is not the best way to do it since everyone grades different but that's how I am doing it. And again that photo guide from pcgs is pretty cool.

[rlm's cents]

Appreciate all the feedback. RLM, I hadn't even noticed the hits in the field till I took the pictures.

I think this will be a good candidate for my first submission to PCGS, just to satisfy my curiosity. I know they wont designate the RDV but I will have it re holdered when the new CPG comes out.

Not sure when I will get around to it as I dont have a local coin dealer that submits to PCGS so I will have to join their collectors club. Will update this post whenever I get around to it. Thanks again all!
And that is how most graders grade. I do not know how good your eyesight is (and I am sure most graders have very good sight), and that is all they use. Pictures can be very useful, but you have to know how to use them. You never noticed the field hits. I would guess a grade might see 2 tiny nicks in the fields and maybe something on the bust. That is not nearly enough to keep it to less that a 65 unless there is something wrong with that luster. Even 67's may have tiny nicks in the fields if there are other compensating factors.

[copperlover]

One of the top consulting graders uses points for each criteria when grading MS coins. These criteria are; Surface preservation, Marks;Strike and Luster for Circulating Coins. For a MS66 grade,the coin should be well struck. There may be some minor defects on the coin but the rest of the coin should be super and compensate for the defects. The coin's luster should be above average and any toning should not impede the coin's luster but be attractive. The eye appeal should also be above average. The preservation of the surface of the coin is the main criteria of all. Most times the Obverse commands 60% of the points assigned except in cases where the reverse is the main area area of focus,then both sides are assigned points on a 50/50 basis. So I would say that your MS 66 seem quite acceptable although I would guess a grade of MS65 not having the coin in hand. The best of luck with the cross over to PCGS. Thanks for sharing.
Lucien

[liveandievarieties]

I read through the whole thread before posting.

If it were raw and I was looking at it, I'd say you could expect an MS65 from PCGS and likely an MS64 from ANACS. Not surprising they gave out a -66, I get some real surprises from them sometimes, usually less than pleasant, but sometimes like yours too. Willing to bet you though, you wouldn't get the same grade if you sent it in to ANACS raw a second time!

Honestly Thomas, I think your coin is worth more money in the ANACS holder, can't believe I just said that! Unless PCGS gives the coin an MS66RD also. In a PCGS MS65 holder the coin would bring less money than in an ANACS MS66 holder. IF it had graded MS65 at ANACS, I'd tell you that you could get more if it were PCGS, but just slightly more in the same grade. I really think it's in it's best possible holder at ANACS MS66, mainly because PCGS is less likely to give the coin an MS66 Red.

[copperlover]

For the variety that it is I would agree with keeping the ANACS holder with the MS66 grade. I have not seen many at that grade but I am sure if the price is right it would attract some buyers. Chris is right when he said that PCGS will assign a lower grade.

Lucien

[BadThad]

One of the top consulting graders uses points for each criteria when grading MS coins. These criteria are; Surface preservation, Marks;Strike and Luster for Circulating Coins. For a MS66 grade,the coin should be well struck. There may be some minor defects on the coin but the rest of the coin should be super and compensate for the defects. The coin's luster should be above average and any toning should not impede the coin's luster but be attractive. The eye appeal should also be above average. The preservation of the surface of the coin is the main criteria of all. Most times the Obverse commands 60% of the points assigned except in cases where the reverse is the main area area of focus,then both sides are assigned points on a 50/50 basis. So I would say that your MS 66 seem quite acceptable although I would guess a grade of MS65 not having the coin in hand. The best of luck with the cross over to PCGS. Thanks for sharing.
Lucien

Pretty much how I grade except I don't "give" points, I start at 70 and subtract for issues.

The hardest part by far is judging luster from photos. It is nearly impossible, especially when you get to the gem level. I usually take clues from the lighting. Good lights reveal the cartwheel luster and dull lighting hides it. I always have a tough time if I don't see those cartwheel spokes.