No "FG" initials akin to "2 feather" buffalo nickels?

[DCW]

After finding a 1988 cent missing the "FG" initials a few weeks back, it got me thinking...
Do you think these could gather as much of a following as the "2 feather" buffalo nickel varieties have for collectors?
We know both are caused by over polished dies, and there are several dates in the series that exhibit this. Two feather buffaloes bring a decent premium. Are the cents with missing designer initials next?
What so you think?

[Scott99]

I'd like to see it be as I have one... but I personally don't think they belong in a variety reference book. (1969-D no FG) Just my opinion though, I still keep anything missing any device. ;)

[admrose]

I thought these were considered errors as opposed to varieties...I also thought they were caused by being struck through grease.

[liveandievarieties]

Ken REALLY likes these abraded dies. That's why you see so many FS-401s listed for Buffalos. With that said, I think the '88 will make an appearance in a popular die variety book due out.

I also do think it's a very collectible variety (or error). What sells is dramatic, eye-catching stuff. There's a version of the '88P No FG that also has Lincoln's statue completely effaced. Is it more akin to MD? In that just a couple of years ago, NOBODY considered it collectible... probably. Does that mean others will refuse to collect or search for it? Nope.

I think it's both collectible and highly marketable. That's what gets into the CPG for the most part. Aside from the debate of whether it belongs in the CPG, I think most of us will enjoy this one being listed and being able to find examples.

[Justafarmer]

You know this sort of confuses me to begin with. The FG initials exist in the die as a void - as nothing. I keep asking myself how can you polish something that isn't there away. The answer I keep coming up with is "You can't". You can polish the surrounding field away but that would create an even larger void in the die. Which would produce an elevated field where the FG initials should be on the coin.

[coppercoins]

Justafarmer - It's very easy, actually. The devices being abraded away are very shallow, and it doesn't take much die abrasion to take those features completely away while apparently not affecting surrounding devices. Thing is, they are shorter too, it's just not noticeable.

As for whether these missing initial coins will gain popularity - probably, but they shouldn't. People find a way to turn nothing into something all the time. These coins are actually somewhat common to one degree or another, and they are a minor, expected part of the minting process. They aren't really even errors in my opinion.

[Justafarmer]

I know this is the idea - that these devices are shallow and as such are easily polished out. Chuck have you done much woodworking? If you have you know how large an area and how much sanding and material has to be removed just to get rid of a shallow scratch in the surface. Certainly these devices are more substantial than a scratch in the surface - at minimum representing extremely deep gouges. For deep gouges woodworkers have to resort to wood filler. Wrong as I may be - it just makes me think if it is not caused by a filled die the problem originates with the Hub. On the working hub the intials exist as something (as opposed to a void in a die) and can be easily buffed off with little or no effect to the surrounding area.

[willbrooks]

I thought these were considered errors as opposed to varieties...I also thought they were caused by being struck through grease.

Yes, they are errors, not varieties. Missing devices can be caused by die abrasion or from being struck by a filled die.

[DCW]

Anybody find a correlation between these and the two feathers?
Found a 17-s two feather the other day in a collection of coins my grandfather left me years ago. Though I don't really like the missing initial cents, I could see them being promoted at some point and carrying a premium.

[liveandievarieties]

That's really what I'm getting at. They're naked eye obvious and outside of the norm. Having that and less than unlimited quantities is all it takes to make something marketable. Plus, others seem to enjoy finding and collecting them. Show me how that is bad (provided people educate themselves on the hobby).

[GrumpyEd]

Originally Posted by admrose
I thought these were considered errors as opposed to varieties.

For some reason collectors don't always follow the rules when talking about certain errors like abraded dies.

You'll see a lot of auctions for 3 leg buffs saying "this is the 3 leg variety".
Yet it's not really a variety by definition because the same die probably made normal coins before they abraded the leg.

Another is the 1922 plain.
Auctions selling them will say "this is 1922 plain die-2, it never has a trace of a D" but in reality that die had a D until it clashed and they polished away the D and replaced the reverse die. So in theory if you had enough high grade 1922 cents and could find markers you could find 1922-D cents from that same die-2 that still have a D but if you sent a 1922-D from that die to a TPG they aren't going to slab it with that die number.

Another example, the high and low leaf Wisconsin quarters. They get called "high leaf variety" or "low leaf variety". These really straggle the rules. That die may have been like that when it was made, some experts say it was gouged before use. It still straggles the rules because it's a gouge and for the most part gouges are errors.