coppercoins.com - new site - need some input for 'My Coppercoins'.

[coppercoins]

How's that for a title? To keep this thread from going viral in off-topic directions, I am limiting input to the 'My Coppercoins' section of the site. I need ideas regarding just how this section of the site should function. I will explain what I envision, and welcome input as to how it could be tweaked to meet YOUR needs...so here goes:

My Coppercoins is an idea that I came up with when I thought that it would be nice to be able to use my own data to create 'want' and 'have' lists of the master collection of coppercoins.com. While I do have probably two-thirds of the listed dies, there are hundreds upon hundreds that I do not have an example of an actual coin because they were coins sent in by collectors for attribution over the years.

Each collector can create an "account", and within that account they will have their own interface where they can record the coins they have and what grades those coins are - additionally, they can record the cost of said coins. I am even considering the possibility of image hosting and allowing them to store an image of the coins. This would work with both 'normal' Lincoln cents and with die varieties. There has been some thought given to allowing for varieties and errors, but I haven't hammered out the logic for that concept yet, and don't know if it will fit well in the grander scheme of things.

Collectors will be able to make their entire online 'inventory' viewable to the public, kept completely private, or segmented in different fashions to make segments public or private. For instance, if you have been on RPMs for years and are just getting started in doubled dies, you can make your RPMs public, and keep the doubled dies private until you decide to make them public. You name the segments yourself into "collections" and the database figures out what a "complete" collection is and reports the contents of that collection to you based on the data you have entered. So you could segment coins you're keeping from those you're offering for sale or trade to other collectors, and move coins from one collection to the other as you see fit.

There will be a limit to how many coins can be stored per account, and the number of collections those coins can be segmented into. Additionally there will have to be a limit as to how many reports you can generate in a given time period. I can just see some zealous collector creating a hundred new reports in a day, taxing the system and slowing it down for other collectors. I do suppose I can create a higher level user account that pays more and gets to do more.

Collectors will also be able to generate reports and filter those reports based on a number of criteria, all spit out by the database in neat, printable format. So if you ever wonder which RPMs from 1909-1958 you need that have a visibility of three or more stars, you can generate that report and print it out or save it.

What's more...the complete Lincoln cent price guide will be tied to this system, so IN those reports we can show values for the coins you have (or need) in all grades. Given that, you can print out a complete inventory that has all the values we assigned for your coins for insurance purposes or other uses...like selling your collection in total or in part.

Now if you're not a die variety collector but STILL want to jump in and inventory your Lincoln cent collection - never worry...all the same functionality will be available completely ignoring die numbers.

So...with all this information, I can tell you that the MONTHLY fee to use this system will be between $5 and $8 per collector, payable in 6-month or annual installments. There could possibly be a power-user level that would cost a few dollars more per month, and I am considering a limited, paid "quick access" fee for people who just want to look a few things up and don't want to pay for monthly membership. Of course this level would not have access to create a My Coppercoins account.

With the subscription membership, collectors would have access to ALL the die variety marker images, full access to My Coppercoins (described above) and would have access to the entire price guide at once (also filterable).

For those who do not join, free visitor access will be limited to die search listings (no marker photos), limited access to view public "My Coppercoins" collections, and the price guide will only show by die and/or date. Access to the entire price guide, as well as the same in PDF printable format would be limited to paid subscribers.

So I ask you now...what "features" of "My Coppercoins" would you want that you did not see above? There are obviously details that I might have left out, but that's okay...this is a conversation. Converse away!

[Maineman750]

It sounds like you have put quite a bit of thought into it already..and I can't wait. But I see one small glitch that is probably an exception. The price guide is handy, but let's say I had kept my 1972 die 4 (AU58)....the price realized was $2990, far greater than most price guide range of $1000-1500. Would there be a way to note what I actually paid (had I bought it) for insurance purposes?

[coppercoins]

I assume I could create any report to show any sort of data that is kept, so if you were to create a report of all the coins you had and include 'value' and 'cost' both would show on the report.

Not that you're asking for this, but I don't think it's healthy to allow you to substitute one for the other on the report and always show the one that is 'higher', so I don't think I will be allowing for that.

[coop]

1. Subscribers might enjoy a listing of coins on each die that they search for that others have duplicates of. A link to this right at the time of searching.
2. The image hosting would be nice.
3. Other areas of copper coins would be nice. Large cent, Indians. RPDs- other year varieties (large/small dates/slanted ......

[Maineman750]

I think your solution to my problem would be great,Chuck.

I like coop's idea about extras,but I think rather than listing what I need, it would be better if I could put a check next to what I have multiples of...that way somebody could contact me if they were interested in an example.

[ray_parkhurst]

I see huge value in coops idea for listing of extras, and this aspect of the site would naturally suggest a simple system for contacting members about purchases or trades, sort of a clearinghouse concept that could be facilitated by the My Coppercoins functionality.

Some sort of "new finds" or "new attributions" section would be nice as well so that there is a broadly-disseminated way for all members to see all the new coins being attributed. This might already exist on the site, but pulling this functionality to a "My" page would be useful. On that same note, giving customizable links to all other areas of Coppercoins, and perhaps LCR or any other external sites would be very helpful. This would be in the spirit of a "one page" customizable coin site.

Ray

[coop]

Some sort of "new finds" or "new attributions" section would be nice as well so that there is a broadly-disseminated way for all members to see all the new coins being attributed. This might already exist on the site, but pulling this functionality to a "My" page would be useful. On that same note, giving customizable links to all other areas of Coppercoins, and perhaps LCR or any other external sites would be very helpful. This would be in the spirit of a "one page" customizable coin site.

Ray

That would also be a plus for membership if the heads up would be part of the members area.

[coppercoins]

The idea of being able to list "extras" as "available" came to mind and isn't a bad idea. Not sure about the legalities of doing this, though. eBay has a huge team of attorneys working for them to ensure they are not liable for other people performing transactions using their site as a venue. I do not have such resources and could find myself in legal deep water allowing on-site trading and selling.

With regard to "other parts of coppercoins" - like Large cents, Indian cents, and other series - I don't know them, don't profess to know them, and had someone promising to help with that when we started coppercoins, hence the name. But since this has become a Lincoln cent only site over time, that's where I will keep the focus. I am going to remove the 'departments' area that alludes to the possibility that information for other series might be found at the site. Instead of trying to spread thin and cover everything, my intent is to focus much more intensely on every aspect of Lincoln cents.

I am sure at some point we will be able to flesh out just about any sort of report a person wants considering the data was saved for such reports. I cannot sort collectors by hair color if I don't record their hair color in their profile - a stupid hypothetical case, but you get the drift. This was one of the main reasons why I started this thread...to get ideas on what people thought they should se in this area so I could ensure I was collecting the information they would need.

One of the big problems with this entire idea is that people are inevitably going to put coins in the system as something they are not. Without some sort of 'certification' by coppercoins staff, there can be no guarantees of what a coin is that someone has listed in the system, or in fact whether the coin even exists. Once we can figure out whether 'certifying' finds is a good move, we can discuss entering serial numbers of 'certified' coins so there can be a fair trading market and even possibly a registry set idea.

For now, it's simply a method of keeping track of one's own hoard, and not a system for buying, selling, and trading coins.

[coppercoins]

And to address the "new attributions" idea - that is already in place on the current site. Find it at the home page where the number of images and number of dies is shown. There's a link to "new listings" below the numbers. I do understand giving a report that new dies have been added and to update reports and collections accordingly - that will be added into My Coppercoins. Something of an "alerts" news feed.

[Maineman750]

My thoughts on the "extras" were that there would be no interaction by coppercoins...I was thinking that if I saw that liveanddievarieties had an extra, it would be up to me to contact him using whatever methods I chose....keeping coppercoins completely out of the loop and liability. The only information on the site would be that I owned multiples.

[ray_parkhurst]

My thoughts on the "extras" were that there would be no interaction by coppercoins...I was thinking that if I saw that liveanddievarieties had an extra, it would be up to me to contact him using whatever methods I chose....keeping coppercoins completely out of the loop and liability. The only information on the site would be that I owned multiples.

That would probably be safest from legal viewpoint. As long as both "want" and "extras/have" lists are included it seems like free market forces should put buyers/sellers/traders together fairly efficiently.

Ray

[Scott99]

The information on coppercoins is very valuable! I read through the thoughts and ideas that everyone has listed but really what I think would be most important is to raise the standards for the listings themselves. My main concern would be the size of the reference images and number of images of the dies and die markers as one photo of one die marker is not very sufficient in a lot of cases when trying to identify a die.

[ray_parkhurst]

If folks put up their own pictures of coins they own, these will add to the database of existing photos. Let's say you find a 1947-S RPM#2. With the MyCC functionality you could compare it with not just the CC pictures but with those uploaded by others.

Personally I love the idea of having a place to upload and share the pics I take of my varieties, both full-coin and details, and having this available is already encouraging me to consider a more extensive photo documentation of my collection. So far, I've engaged only in sharing ad hoc photos on LCR and other forums, since I'm loathe to take hundreds of pics just to look at them myself. But having a well-organized and community-based method of sharing those photos appeals to me, even though I am NOT AT ALL into the usual social media channels. I would view it (and I assume Chuck intends this) similarly to the "Registry" on PCGS/NGC/etc and in fact score can be kept with the database in a similar way.

[coppercoins]

The idea of My Coppercoins turning into a photo hosting service was not necessarily my intent and is not a highly popular idea with me - mainly because of the expense of operating a server with that many more images on it than we already have...and that number could be quite large. It was more a fleeting thought on my part than a rock-solid plan. Much of that would depend on the number of people who are willing to opt-in to the paid membership. If enough, I could see the revenue stream being enough to rent a more powerful server than the one we have now.

To touch on the idea of "raising the standards" - the current version of coppercoins was started on a server with a 500Mb space limit and at a time when 800px wide screens were the norm. Now we have 20Gb of storage space, and the 'standard' is resolutions of 1024px or higher. in fact, the new website is being designed so that if you have a resolution less than 1024px wide, you're going to have to scroll side to side to see the entire website. Anyhow, with all that in mind, you can understand why I put the limits I did on the image size. That will change over time. I cannot just go in and resize nearly 20,000 images. Each one will have to be manually re-done so the new images are of-quality and don't lose resolution.

Now, with regard to the NUMBER of images per die...there are often cases where taking more than a couple of images is not worthwhile because there ARE no decent markers to photograph. We give ALL the information we have on coins examined when we examine them. We do not hold anything back and publish every image we see as important for identifying a coin to a die. I detect indication to the contrary, which is actually somewhat offensive - as if we don't try hard enough when we list coins with only a couple of images. Sometimes that's all the information we can pick from the coin - end of story. No amount of updating the site is going to change that fact.

I WILL remind you that our website is STILL the ONLY place you can find marker images for more than three fourths of the dies we have listed...online or anyplace else.

[coppercoins]

It might also be worth mentioning that if we end up with a couple hundred members using My Coppercoins that we will probably have to move to a more expensive server anyway because of the sheer size of the database required for such a project.

And the "funds" that come from membership fees will in large part come back to Bob and myself for the tireless YEARS and countless hours BOTH of us have put into this project out of pocket and with donated coins and money from a few very appreciated collectors. By the numbers, more than 90% of the people who visit coppercoins.com don't pay a dime for its existence.

The remainder of the profit from running the site will go into advertising, the cost of creating and printing books, software for future site development, and equipment that Bob and I need to continue running the site. I have not bought a new microscope since 2005 and mine is in dire need of repair or replacement.

If the site happens to make enough money, I will consider paying a third developer to assist in adding function and features to the website to make it bigger and more enjoyable to those who pay to use it.

I will restate - IMPORTANT - there will still be a number of useful parts of the site that will ALWAYS remain FREE to the public. I believe in giving back to the community, but after 14 years of constantly giving, it's time to take back a little. For the most intense parts of the site that take up the most space and the most bandwidth - I must charge a fee or shut down. I chose the former.

[ray_parkhurst]

The idea of My Coppercoins turning into a photo hosting service was not necessarily my intent and is not a highly popular idea with me - mainly because of the expense of operating a server with that many more images on it than we already have...and that number could be quite large. It was more a fleeting thought on my part than a rock-solid plan. Much of that would depend on the number of people who are willing to opt-in to the paid membership. If enough, I could see the revenue stream being enough to rent a more powerful server than the one we have now.

Well, I would not hesitate paying the fee to have this service. The convenience of organizing photos of my coins in a viewable, searchable, share-able format would be quite valuable to me. I assumed since you mentioned it in your introductory post that it would be a core offering...

[coppercoins]

It really depends on the technology that's available to me. If there's a way to co-host the images or use the cloud in some way to host them, then that's what I will do, and it will work out for the greater good. If I end up having to host everyone's images on my server - that could turn into more of a nightmare than it's worth.

[mustbebob]

My main concern would be the size of the reference images and number of images of the dies and die markers as one photo of one die marker is not very sufficient in a lot of cases when trying to identify a die.

Even though Chuck addressed this, I was actually shocked to see this statement Matt. The first thing I asked was if you were viewing coppercoins or something else. Knowing you for a while, I know it was not meant as a derogatory comment Matt, but as I just mentioned last week, there are over 18,000 photos on coppercoins right now. Since we have 3,000 dies listed, that leaves over 15,000 marker photos! You are lucky to see a preview pic on anything else out there right now. The other clubs and attributers' are working on taking care of that. Our work will entail making what we have even better, and giving the collector a way to inventory, show off, compare, buy, or sell portions of their collections. Need I say more than that is going to be worth any membership cost in its own right.
I also understand some of the photography sucks. When I first started this venture with Chuck, I could correctly identify the lens of the camera only 2 out of 3 times. In the background over the past few years, I have replaced a lot of those photos, and will continue to do so in the future. We will address those issues as we push on...OK?

[copperlover]

I would be more than happy to pay a fee for the services to be provided. It is about time. I would love to see a section on rare cents which are not always in the spotlight but should be on a watch list so collectors can become more familiar with them.

Lucien

[Antiquity]

I think all the new features sound great. Personally I am not sure I would use them. But I would still like to be able to see marker photos (coppercoins as it appears now). Will there be a option for a discounted subscription service without all the bells and whistles?

Thanks,

[coppercoins]

Short answer: no.

The subscription is mainly for the use of the most server intense parts of the site - the database and images. That would be My Coppercoins and the use of the die information on an equal par. Both are what I would consider the "bells and whistles". My Coppercoins is just a "new" area that helps people organize their collection.

Frankly, I should be charging that much for what the site has on it right now.

[Maineman750]

Frankly, I should be charging that much for what the site has on it right now.


Well worth it...and to quote an attributer I know "Shouldn't be a problem for people that collect money as a hobby":)

[coppercoins]

Even at my poorest financial times I could afford what basically breaks down to be a magazine each month. That's all this is...somewhere around $5 monthly.

And speaking of "magazine" - even though this is somewhat of a tangent, there will be articles on the site. Some of those articles will include videos that show very detailed information that's easier to show than it is to write. Basically a "tricks of the trade" section that will be available - you guessed it - to paid subscribers only.

There will also be educational articles and videos that will be accessible to everyone. Details are still in the works with regard to what and how.

[eaxtellcoin]

I'm sorry folks but im a little negative on the subject. In short - $60 - 90 a year Really!!!! With sales slow - I could see $30 a year like a club fee. I could go into details but it falls on Def ear anyways...

[coppercoins]

Hey Eric...how about putting thousands of hours into a website, pay $100 a month to maintain it for - oh, say 15 years without asking for a dime in return, and then listen to someone ungratefully complain about 5 bucks a month. Only then would you know how "a little negative" feels. Good thing not everyone out there is like you, or I'd just shut it down. If I went back and did the math for how much it cost ME through these years to provide coppercoins to YOU - that number would be somewhere in the neighborhood of $25,000. THAT's why CONECA and NCADD still don't have decent web based systems for die varieties - THEY weren't willing to spend money on the hobby like I was. I built this system with the purpose of eventually turning it into a pay site - the ONLY way sites like this survive, with the support of followers, not the belly aching of freeloaders.

In fact, back when I offered to create a site like coppercoins for those clubs (before coppercoins came into existence) BOTH said they were unwilling to do it if it cost anything...and that's why they are still in the internet dark ages.

Coppercoins is NOT a club, never has been, and never will be. It's a business. I am NOT shadowing this as a club and taking profit from "club members". I intend on making profit from "customers" (also called "subscribers"), and am being very up-front about that. If you don't see a point, or if you don't see worthiness in what will be the most powerful Lincoln cent website ever developed, then you don't HAVE to comment, and you don't HAVE to join.

Five bucks...you would pay more than that for a burger at McDonalds if you get the fries and a soda. You pay more than that to have two hours of entertainment at the movie theater. This gives access to a powerful system for the entire month, 24/7. We're talking about less than 20 cents a day, $5 per month is.

Yeah, no point going into details, I wouldn't listen.

[ray_parkhurst]

I see enough potential value in the functionality that $5 per month would be completely worth it to me, especially if there is at least some level of photo hosting that would be associated with the database. I suppose it comes down to what you think you'll get out of it. If you have extras for sale or trade, and the site helps you do that, it doesn't take many transactions to make up the monthly fee. If there is still not enough functionality in what has been described and brainstormed, then what more would make it worth the $$? With software, lots of things are easy that seem like they should be hard, while vice versa is also true. I for one want this to go forward since I see value to me personally, so please Eric and others come up with ideas that would make this thing more valuable to you. There are probably things that Chuck can do that are easy for him and virtually free that you might find great value in...Ray

[coppercoins]

Ray - Eric doesn't need to comment further...but thanks for the positive attitude.

[Maineman750]

Well, I think the current coppercoins is well worth $5 a month as it is...and I will pay the fee for the new one and probably never use the other features.Chuck,please don't take offense when others complain about fees...the internet has spoiled a lot of people and sometimes they don't realize how much work goes into a site like yours.My feelings are that if it were to shut down, they would soon realize the real value.

[simonm]

I think that a paid subscription to coppercoins is a good idea. Thinking about how many times I have used it, I am pretty sure it will be well-worth the given price.
That being said, my main use out of it would be almost exclusively research for die varieties...using die markers, etc. I personally don't have a strong interest in a personal album or for trade/sale space on coppercoins, and I would think some other people would feel the same way...in that case, I would be interested in seeing a "tier" system for paid subscriptions...a lesser fee will give you basic options such as ability to view die markers, etc, while a full subscription gets you the whole package. I think you would see a lot more signups if there were optional subscriptions. But that's just me, and I think either way that it is about time we give back to the best die variety archive for Lincoln Cents on the internet.

[coppercoins]

Simon - forget the area to keep your own collection inventoried...even if I did NOT build that part I would still charge the same amount for the site, because 99.5% of the storage space the site takes up rests in the marker photos. The inventory system is a BONUS.

I suppose I have offered what should be a paid service for too long as a free service. I guess some people are just used to taking advantage of the countless hours Bob and I put into the site without putting a dime back into it.

The added features I plan to have on the site include videos and articles about how to use photoshop, how to grade coins, how to attribute die varieties, how to organize a collection, and others.

How about a blog where we regularly post about what's going on in the world of coppercoins and turn that into a Facebook and Twitter feed?

How about co-hosting Lincoln cent related articles in RSS from other sources who are on board to support my effort like Coin Week, Numismatic News, and Coin World?

How about a grading guide with large photos and EVEN videos that help subscribers learn to accurately grade Lincoln cents?

How about easily printable price guides that are filter capable of properly printing binder-ready Lincoln cent price guides? If you want a full price guide of all grades of Wheat cent RPMs from 1937-1949, you could make and print it. You could also print the ENTIRE price guide of ALL Lincoln cents including regular issues and all 3,000+ die varieties.

What's more, the price guide data would be updated quarterly...AND you could print history reports to show trends in value for any number of Lincoln cents (including die varieties) at any date or grade range.

There's a TON of stuff in the plans, which is why I will take at the very least another six months to a year to open, then another year to complete all the above...and for the first three months I am open, anyone can create an account, and anyone can use it for FREE.

[coppercoins]

I'm out for the weekend. No more posts from me for a couple of days. Keep the ideas coming, though! Enjoy your Independence day!

[Antiquity]

Chuck I think we all agree that coppercoins is something we are willing to pay for. No one faults you for wanting to make a return on your investment. And we all appreciate the time you and Bob and put into the site.

People are just expressing their opinions, You seem set on your price point and thats fine, your site, your time, etc.

I want you to make as much money as possible, I really do. I am just afraid your price point will scare away some collectors. And instead of getting $60 from him/her you wont get anything.

I have been here long enough to know your a no bull**** kinda guy. So let me have it.

[coppercoins]

My price point will likely scare away some collectors - true. But the focus of the website will be a broader spectrum of ALL Lincoln cent collectors - not just the roll hunters. What I have planned should attract PLENTY of collectors who probably won't even care about the die variety listing system.

It is what it is...I hate saying that, but it applies here. I'm not getting into nickel and dime fees for this and that, and multiple levels of membership which would only serve to cause more programming headaches and more data to store. I could see it if I were charging more like $50 a month for full access, but I think $5-$8 monthly is virtually giving it away. What's there now is worth more than $5 a month. I've seen many sites in other collectible areas that offer less than what I'm offering already and their fees are $15-$30 monthly.

You're right. I don't mince words. My market is far broader than the members of LCR because of the features I am focusing on that are not mentioned in this thread and that I don't plan to get into until I have them hammered out in clearer detail. In basic terms, if someone doesn't think the fee associated with the website has merit, they can try to get their information elsewhere for a lower price. Oh...wait...they won't. It's not out there.

If there are people out there who cannot afford the fee but really wants to use all parts of the site - I will take their special needs on a case by case basis.

This thread isn't here and wasn't started to argue about fees. I am not changing my mind on the subject. I will be going through a great deal of expense to finish this project and even with the best turnout I could expect, I STILL won't profit for years to come. I am offering it at the lowest possible price to try climbing out of the hole it's already in.

My fee will be about the same as a subscription to Coin World, yet will offer more information (and no ads) than Coin World can fit into ten years worth of magazines.

My fee will be less monthly than many smokers spend daily on their bad habit. (Don't get started on this statement, I'm a smoker)

In fact, my fee will be by far less per month than almost any semi-serious coin roll hunter blows in gas alone to exchange their coins at the bank.

I'm done arguing about the fees. Let's move on or close the thread.

[coppercoins]

Okay...NOW I am off for the weekend. I have a sailboat rented in Key West calling my name, and it's a six hour drive to get there. Up at five, gone at six. Good night all.

[BadThad]

I will restate - IMPORTANT - there will still be a number of useful parts of the site that will ALWAYS remain FREE to the public.

That's good to hear. A lot of the reason we have more die variety collectors today is due to website. I believe it draws in a lot of people new to the hobby.

[mustbebob]

I have been relatively quiet for this entire thread. Chuck has handled it just fine.
We can not expect everyone to agree to everything. Hence, the choice all of us have. If we want it, and feel it meets our needs, then you can become a subscriber.
We also know that people can choose which filing system to use for their Lincoln Cent research. Whether it is CONECA, Wexler or Coppercoins, you decide...not us. It is also your money. You decide, not us. It is a business.
But, I have to be honest folks. I never hear complaints with everything being free. Nope...not one complaint. Just think about everything in life you have to pay for. How long do you really expect us to foot the bill and continue to work on this very large database? We are not asking anyone to mortgage the house to gain access to the site. We are only asking for a few dollars a month to continue to bring you the information that you have been getting for free for almost 15 years. We have sacrificed thousands of hours and dollars to give you this information. Don't you think we should get something for that time/effort? In addition, you will be getting a lot more. At what point does it look like some folks are just too cheap?

[eaxtellcoin]

Am I cheap yes... I'm not the only person who feels this way. What is the old saying.... You can attract more bees to the honey if the honey is sweet. $2.50 a month. = 50 people you have your fee's for the internet. Remember this does not include the attribution fee of $4 a coin. Bob has been very gracious over the years and looked at stuff that had merit for free to probably most members - granted.

I may be the only person who will say.. It's all about the $$$$. On both sides of the coin. We all will have our breaking point of what we will pull out of our budget to pay for a HOBBY! that is what this is.

[Justafarmer]

To be honest $5.00 a month is peanut money but what about us folks who refuse to pay for anything over the internet using a credit card?

Yes people do use different filing systems but CC has crossed referenced many of these dies. If My Coppercoins allowed an individual to enter their coins using the other's reference numbers and it automatically made the link to the Coppercoins Reference, when available, would be a nice feature.

[eaxtellcoin]

But un fortunately not realistic. The legal issue of if the coin was listed wrong would be the problem.

[Justafarmer]

No more of a legal issue than exist now, being that information is already included in the die listing.

[eaxtellcoin]

The difference is that in this case you are PAYING for the info to be correct. If it is not, it's a legal issue.

Were off topic. Back to the point at hand.

[mustbebob]

The difference is that in this case you are PAYING for the info to be correct. If it is not, it's a legal issue.

Not quite understanding the legal issue here Eric. Legal to who and what system? These are coppercoins numbers we will be dealing with. If I assign a number to a certain coin, that is the legal description of that coin. Plain and simple with no issues.
As far as getting back on topic, then this is where you have made a good point whether you intended it or not. If you are talking about cross references being accurate, then that is an issue that has to be addressed during the upgrade and can be easily taken care of. You have helped me out a lot in correcting incorrect cross references, and I am very grateful to you and others who have done so. However, I can delete all cross references and that will not be a problem, or I can have a caveat that says something to the effect that cross references may or may not be accurate. We do the cross reference thing as a courtesy anyway. I can save a lot of attribution and update time by not attempting any cross references. If folks are using coppercoins ONLY to get a cross reference, then they are missing out on what we have to offer. NO ONE is going to look only for a cross reference and not look at the photos.
As I said, we are not going to please every one. You don't like the fact that there will be a fee, and we can respect that. Once again, that choice is up to you, but I appreciate your point of view.

[ray_parkhurst]

To be honest $5.00 a month is peanut money but what about us folks who refuse to pay for anything over the internet using a credit card?

Yes people do use different filing systems but CC has crossed referenced many of these dies. If My Coppercoins allowed an individual to enter their coins using the other's reference numbers and it automatically made the link to the Coppercoins Reference, when available, would be a nice feature.

I have a separate credit card that I use for all my online, phone, automatic, etc payments. It has minimum $ limit and as long as I don't let the balance rise on it they don't raise the limit on me.

I like the auto-cross-reference idea, since I still use ALL the systems, including CC, to describe my coins. I find it useful to know what coins are recognized by which groups since that information is a factor in valuation, desirability, etc.

Ray

[Maineman750]

what about us folks who refuse to pay for anything over the internet using a credit card?

Just find somebody like me. I buy lots of stuff for folks with that mindset...I earn free fishing tackle (BassProBucks) and they don't have to worry about the risk.

[hasfam]

I stopped reading several posts ago, but I will say this. Coppercoins is already the best, no discussion there. Any improvements coming will only make it that much more irresistible and "mandatory" for the serious collector and dealer of Lincoln Cents. Just sign me up and tell me how much it is. Without CC I would have to go back to merchandising, which I hated. Besides, It would be a legitimate tax right off as a business expense, but that's another discussion somewhere else. Lastly, I wish I had the computer skills or photography skills or the Lincoln cent variety attribution skills to somehow help, but since I don't, I will happily contribute the small fee asked for each month.

[papascoins]

I stopped reading several posts ago, but I will say this. Coppercoins is already the best, no discussion there. Any improvements coming will only make it that much more irresistible and "mandatory" for the serious collector and dealer of Lincoln Cents. Just sign me up and tell me how much it is. Without CC I would have to go back to merchandising, which I hated. Besides, It would be a legitimate tax right off as a business expense, but that's another discussion somewhere else. Lastly, I wish I had the computer skills or photography skills or the Lincoln cent variety attribution skills to somehow help, but since I don't, I will happily contribute the small fee asked for each month.


"What he said......"

[seal006]

I am all for Chuck and Bob being able to profit from CC. In fact, I was pushing this issue a few years ago. The only thing in my mind is that I want to see a significant difference in being a "paid" member as opposed to a "free" one. I was all for LCR charging as well, but have been disappointed, as I do not see a HUGE difference or benefit for being a paid member so far.

[Roller]

"What he said......"
Ditto. There are no free lunches (except for CC, thus far LOL). I think these guys have been and are very generous with their accumulated knowledge. They deserve to make a buck. I'll pay for the info.

[hasfam]

I think we all got used to FREE. If all my sales were constantly Cherry Pickers varieties @ $.99 cents each all the time, then decided to start charging closer to what they are really worth, I know I'll lose some buyers and hear complaints from others, but in the end I will provide a good variety at a reasonable price that makes the more serious collector happy and keeps me in business. Yes, I paid my $20 to LCR, but that wasn't so I could just tell everyone I have auctions going. I paid it just because it's very existence is worth it to me. Without LCR I wouldn't have met or have the back and forth discussion with a lot of people I really like and respect. Even if CC never changes a thing but asks for a subscription, I would pay. Just because it exists and I wouldn't be able to do what I do without it. I'm living hand to mouth like many. I'm 60 with no pension and still forking out money for education, weddings, people who need more help than me etc, all with hard earned income....that is generated by sales from Lincoln varieties that I learn and talk about here and attribute on Coppercoins. Enough. The value is already there. It's time to pay the bill and that's near to nothing too.

[seal006]

I think we all got used to FREE. If all my sales were constantly Cherry Pickers varieties @ $.99 cents each all the time, then decided to start charging closer to what they are really worth, I know I'll lose some buyers and hear complaints from others, but in the end I will provide a good variety at a reasonable price that makes the more serious collector happy and keeps me in business. Yes, I paid my $20 to LCR, but that wasn't so I could just tell everyone I have auctions going. I paid it just because it's very existence is worth it to me. Without LCR I wouldn't have met or have the back and forth discussion with a lot of people I really like and respect. Even if CC never changes a thing but asks for a subscription, I would pay. Just because it exists and I wouldn't be able to do what I do without it. I'm living hand to mouth like many. I'm 60 with no pension and still forking out money for education, weddings, people who need more help than me etc, all with hard earned income....that is generated by sales from Lincoln varieties that I learn and talk about here and attribute on Coppercoins. Enough. The value is already there. It's time to pay the bill and that's near to nothing too.

And I agree with every bit of that. I guess I am frustrated because I am footing the bill for those that choose not to pay. Up to this point I have not seen a huge difference in what is provided to each group.

[Roller]

I sent my $20 in and I really do not anticipate useing the auction site but a few times, maybe. I know what you mean Rock. After my son's recent wedding I hope my daugter will not follow suit, for a little while, anyway.

[DCW]

" Lastly, I wish I had the computer skills or photography skills or the Lincoln cent variety attribution skills to somehow help, but since I don't, I will happily contribute the small fee asked for each month."


If it hasnt been brought up already, you actually had a great idea through your modesty. Wouldn't it be great if the collector could submit photos of a particular variety to become "plate coins" for the website, assuming they are of high quality? Im not talking about Mycoppercoins or anything about personal inventory, just submitting pics of an already established variety to me made definitive examples for the community. Some collectors are hesitant to send off high dollar coins for photographing. As the variety is submitted to Chuck or Bob for approval, some circulated or less appealing examples could be replaced.

And Rock, you are definitely a guy that would fit this type of contributor. Your photos of varieties are always very professional.
Something to consider.

[Maineman750]

I believe there are quite a few pictures on CC that were contributed by collectors.