Pointed / Rounded Hairline?

[Oldiebutagoodie]

Ok, so I've got an old oddity/variety book that talks about the (RHL)Rounded Hairline/(PHL)Pointed hairline.... is this really a variety?
I've been looking at some coins trying to find the difference and driving myself crazy. So I thought I'd ask if this is something that we still note in varieties or not?

I've decided to work on a collection of all varieties for the 1960's decade and wasn't sure if I should be including these or if they aren't significant.
If they do exist does anyone have a couple of nice examples I can see? The book example is just not working for me.

[willbrooks]

I will consult my notes on master hub changes and look into it, but in the meantime, please provide us with more details on this.

1. What is the name of the book?
2. Who is the author?
3. What date does he claim this happened, or is it over a span of dates? This information is paramount since master hubs and their designs changed from time to time.

It is very interesting, and I will definitely explore it further, but the dates will be very helpful. Hand drawn pictures are worthless, and the author also demonstrates his overall ignorance on the subject when he opines that he believes they are from a different, "master die hub." Lol. It is difficult to take someone's opinion seriously when ,in the very same sentence, they clearly demonstrate they don't know even know the basics of the minting process. Anyway, please give more details, and I will explore it, because design changes are an area of concentration for me. Thanks for the interesting post!

[jfines69]

I can see how that could confuse some one... Have you looked thru the obv/rev design varieties and MM varieties on Variety Vista yet??? Lots of good info there about the design changes

Obv/Rev Designs - http://varietyvista.com/01b%20LC%20D...0Varieties.htm

MM Styles - http://varietyvista.com/01b%20LC%20D...k%20Styles.htm

[Oldiebutagoodie]

Name of book: Major Variety and Oddity Guide of United States Coins by Frank G. Spadone
There are many editions of this small book... First edition came out in 1962. I recently purchased the 7th edition 1977 as well to see if the author had made many revisions. In the first edition the author does not note anything about the two different hairlines.... however in the 1963 2nd edition he begins pointing out these two varieties with no explanation other than they exist.
It is in the 7th 1977 edition that he states: "A survey showed the RHL variety is in a minority quantity in comparison to the PHL. It's my opinion the RHL is the result of a different master die hub, and not the result of a filled die. A further study showed both varieties exist in most other dates and proof sets. As these varieties are reported to me I will list for future editions."

I found the vintage book at the coin shop in the used book bin. Then picked up the other two off ebay pretty cheap. One came with a bakers dozen batch of error coins that were actually pretty fun to sort through... but most were not identified properly in comparison to what we name errors today. Kinda interesting! The book has many errors listed in it that definitely look like machine doubling to me and the author calls it doubling. I take some of the information in the book with hesitation because I know there has been so much more advanced study on the topic, but I find it interesting to see how they once named error coins. Things sure have come a long way!

Oh, You also asked about dates.... I had to just go through his lists to see when he started noting to look for the two hairline differences. It begins in 1959 and doesn't seem to have a mint exclusion... the listing for the PHL/RHL goes all the way up to 1977 (the last edition I have for this book)... Im not sure if there were editions made after that year or not... haven't looked into it.
The PHL/RHL variety is just one of his varieties listed that I was confused about... the other was the author lists Thin/Thick dates for what looks to be again about every year and mint. So that's my "other" variety question for ya... Are there Thick/Thin varieties too? LOL.

I have seen varietyvista's site. LOVE IT!!!.. cant download the word document that lists all the changes so I couldn't look this up to see if it was a design change or not. I guess I better find a friend that can print it out for me. I got into this "hobby" looking for errors with my daughter and putting a few coins in a book... but now, I find myself wanting to learn so much more... I am fascinated with the different varieties and would like to start collecting them into a book for further study and reference. Oh my, what have I gotten myself into????

Thanks for the response,
Warm Smiles, ~Heather

[Maineman750]

Frank G. Spadone is known for listing varieties and errors that were actually damage.....but a lot of people give him credit for creating interest in the hobby regardless of his lack of expertise....and I believe his books are collectible.

[Petespockets55]

....... Oh my, what have I gotten myself into????

Thanks for the response,
Warm Smiles, ~Heather

I hear ya sister!!!!!
It starts out so very innocently with a just little curiosity and then BAM! before you know it you are all in!!!!

[jfines69]

There are thick/thin varieties - 1960 Large/Small date - 1970 Large/Small - 1974 Large/Small - 1982 Large/Small and not just the dates... The ODV/RDV on Variety Vista as well as the MM styles covers these by year and MM... Hope that helps a little... As we all know some varieties get looked at again and realized that it was actually damage such as in the case of some RPMs (I do not remember the dates off hand) also some items that were thought to be die damage turn out to be clashed dies such as the Radical MAD clashes http://www.maddieclashes.com/19-2/

[Oldiebutagoodie]

Examples that confuse me

Here are two examples of the hairline differences that keep me confused.
Is it just grease filled on the one? I don't know how to do an overlay but I think it would be interesting to see it.
These were both taken from a 1967

[GrumpyEd]

I don't think they are varieties, just different based on die wear, strike and wear.

It's amazing that guys like Spadone and Breen did get a lot of stuff right, they didn't have internet to share finds and test their ideas but they still did get a lot of stuff right but not everything. Makes me wonder how sharing ideas worked, it was more like the circle of experts sharing ideas or learning alone. Just think, if you had no internet how much less you'd know and understand about varieties and errors. You could buy all the books from the pre 80s and still be pretty confused, if you had one day to use the modern internet you'd be way ahead!

[jfines69]

I don't think they are varieties, just different based on die wear, strike and wear.

It's amazing that guys like Spadone and Breen did get a lot of stuff right, they didn't have internet to share finds and test their ideas but they still did get a lot of stuff right but not everything. Makes me wonder how sharing ideas worked, it was more like the circle of experts sharing ideas or learning alone. Just think, if you had no internet how much less you'd know and understand about varieties and errors. You could buy all the books from the pre 80s and still be pretty confused, if you had one day to use the modern internet you'd be way ahead!

Pen and paper... The days when the post office actually made money