Celestron Handheld Digital Microscope Pro

[VAB2013]

Today I had a great conversation with a Technical Support Representative at Celestron. As soon as I told him I had questions about viewing and taking photos of Lincoln cents, the nice gentleman told me that he is also a coin collector! He answered all of my questions and even emailed me a couple of coin pics he snapped at his desk while we were talking! Of course, I emailed him back at Celestron with information about the LCF and asked him to come join us! Made my day:)

As some of you know, Tracy (duecetoseven) has been helping me research digital microscopes and we both narrowed it down to the Celestron Handheld Digital Microscope Pro as the best product at the best price.

A few days ago, I asked Maineman if it was okay... if Celestron or one of their distributors, might be willing to offer members of the forum an incentive, a small discount or free shipping maybe... Well the awesome Tech Support person said he would forward my information to their Sales and Marketing Division! So... not counting our chicken's before they hatch, but what an awesome guy!

There's so much information to share about this... but attached are the two pics. Two of my main concerns were... will the microscope take a full coin photo and can you turn the LED lights completely off and just use natural light and the answer is yes and yes.

The stand has to be turned to one side just a tad and placed on about a 1" thick book but that will lift the stand up enough to get a full coin photo (Canadian cent is with the stand done this way and the LED lights turned completely off, just natural light) The Lincoln cent photo is with the LED lights on, and of course the microscope will zoom in more for close ups.

I was going to wait and post this after I heard back from Celestron, but so many of you have been asking about where to find a good digital microscope and I didn't want to wait... and you go buy something else without checking into this one!

Here are a few links... feel free to ask questions, if I don't know the answer, I certainly know who to call :) Thank you Celestron!!!

https://www.celestron.com/products/handheld-digital-microscope-pro

https://www.celestron.com/blogs/team-celestron

No idea which microscope was used to take the photo of the Amazon Rainforest Blue Morpho Dragonfly but it is so awesome looking I wanted you to see it!

[makecents]

Very cool Viv!! It's nice to find someone who actually wants to help!

[VAB2013]

Thank you Jon! I am very impressed with the quality of the product, the professionalism of the company, the reviews are great, sample photos I have seen are very good, the microscope has a 2 year warranty, US Seller, great customer service and tech support!

[jfines69]

That's cool... Thanks for the info Vivien!!!

[uglycent]

Celestron was the first scope I used, it worked quite well and had good software to support its use. I also have Veho Discovery that also works well and has adjustable light settings. The largest problem I found was stabilization for quality images with the stand and alternate light sources. Also I have tremors which makes anything hand held or controlled a mess for me to work with. Fortunately now I have an Amscope that takes great images but only can get 90 percent full coin images.

[VAB2013]

Celestron was the first scope I used, it worked quite well and had good software to support its use. I also have Veho Discovery that also works well and has adjustable light settings. The largest problem I found was stabilization for quality images with the stand and alternate light sources. Also I have tremors which makes anything hand held or controlled a mess for me to work with. Fortunately now I have an Amscope that takes great images but only can get 90 percent full coin images.

Thank you for this info Anthony! You are bringing up some of the very same issues I discussed with Celestron. One is the way the photo is taken, which is a clicker on the USB cable. That helps keep the microscope still while clicking a photo, and I believe there is also a delay setting for that also. The other thing is being able to take a full coin photo. It was explained to me that where the microscope connects to the stand, that will loosen up and you can swivel the scope to one side or another which moves it away from the existing platform. So with it set on a sturdy surface (like a hardback book) that lifts the entire thing up about an inch, that allows enough depth to take a full coin photo of a Lincoln cent. (or a Canadian cent which happens to be the example). Another great feature is the ability to adjust the LED lights and actually turn them completely off. The Technical Support person did not have any other type of external lighting at his desk, just the normal lighting of an office, and that Canadian coin came out true color and clear.

Edit: I believe there is also a delay setting for that also.
Not sure so I sent an email to Celestron to find out, will let you all know what they say.

[Petespockets55]

Thanks Vivien for working on this.
I like the fact that it is American made and the images look good and are "normal".
My last scope (a competitor) had soft ware that was not updated when the new Windows came out so it is useless now. That is why I have a make do system I concocted to use my cell phone.
You may have answered this but does it have the ability to edit and add noted to images it has taken?
Looking forward learning more from them.

[jfines69]

Thanks Vivien for working on this.
I like the fact that it is American made and the images look good and are "normal".
My last scope (a competitor) had soft ware that was not updated when the new Windows came out so it is useless now. That is why I have a make do system I concocted to use my cell phone.
You may have answered this but does it have the ability to edit and add noted to images it has taken?
Looking forward learning more from them.
Did you try runnig the software in a different windows mode such as XP??? Some times that does the trick!!!

[jfines69]

That is a nice little microscope/camera... 5 mp is fairly good for most images... Wish they had a trillion mp camera then I could really over anal eyes :LOL_Hair: With a longer post that would be able to adjust out far enough for a full coin image with out having to turn it around set on a book or hold it... Could even set it up to use a loupe for super magnification!!!

[TJ1952]

Great information Viv! Hmmm, I may have to upgrade my scope now. I'll have to start saving my penny's.

[duece2seven]

Great news, Viv! I will add more later but I can tell this will work very well with some tweaking. Lighting is the key. As for editing, there are several free programs that will allow you to edit in post. For the money this will be hard to beat. Good news! Take care.

Tracy

[VAB2013]

Thanks Vivien for working on this.
I like the fact that it is American made and the images look good and are "normal".
My last scope (a competitor) had soft ware that was not updated when the new Windows came out so it is useless now. That is why I have a make do system I concocted to use my cell phone.
You may have answered this but does it have the ability to edit and add noted to images it has taken?
Looking forward learning more from them.

You are welcome Cliff! Tracy was so nice to help and I have learned a lot from him! Some cell phones take good photos and your photos are very good!

The software does allow you to add notes to the images, and it's compatible with Mac and Windows XP and greater (Windows 7 and 10)

Thank you for asking!

[VAB2013]

That is a nice little microscope/camera... 5 mp is fairly good for most images... Wish they had a trillion mp camera then I could really over anal eyes :LOL_Hair: With a longer post that would be able to adjust out far enough for a full coin image with out having to turn it around set on a book or hold it... Could even set it up to use a loupe for super magnification!!!

Thank you Jim! You know, we have all gone to many extremes to create the best photos we can with the different scopes we have. I think with what all we know, and very little tweaking, this microscope will create very nice images! The Celestron Handheld Digital Microscope Pro has 20x to 200x powers which is a lot more than what we need!

[VAB2013]

Great information Viv! Hmmm, I may have to upgrade my scope now. I'll have to start saving my penny's.

Thank you Tom! I am anxious to get one myself and start putting it to good use! You know how much heartache I have been dealing with with what I am currently using. It literally takes me forever to get a half way decent pic, it will be nice to be able to snap and go look at more Lincoln's!

[VAB2013]

Great news, Viv! I will add more later but I can tell this will work very well with some tweaking. Lighting is the key. As for editing, there are several free programs that will allow you to edit in post. For the money this will be hard to beat. Good news! Take care.

Tracy

Hello Tracy! Thank you so much for helping me with this research! I know you are very busy, and your knowledge on this subject is greatly appreciated! We may need your assistance on lighting techniques and software editing! Take care too! Thank you!

[VAB2013]

Jim, I just realized this thread should be in Off Topic Discussion (Coin Photography). Please move it for me, thank you!!

[makecents]

Pretty impresive Viv!! I was looking at specs on my Andonstar I bought a few years ago and it's only 2 megapixel and the Celestron is 5. Maybe I could get those pesky dots to show up with yours!!

[VAB2013]

Pretty impresive Viv!! I was looking at specs on my Andonstar I bought a few years ago and it's only 2 megapixel and the Celestron is 5. Maybe I could get those pesky dots to show up with yours!!

Thank you Jon! You are right, some images are very difficult to capture... even those pesky dots :) The Celestron Handheld Digitial Microscope Pro is listed as number 5 in the top 8 USB Microscopes on wiki.ezvid.com for 2017 https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=21&v=lszWLWwrmcY

I have gotten used to a handheld scope even though the one I currently have is very inferior. What I do like about it is I can search coins fast, and see the images on my monitor so there is less neck and back fatigue. It will be nice to still be able to do that and just pop the scope in the stand for taking photos.

[GrumpyEd]

Looks interesting, a simple setup for pics and does not cost an arm and a leg. :)

[duece2seven]

Hello Tracy! Thank you so much for helping me with this research! I know you are very busy, and your knowledge on this subject is greatly appreciated! We may need your assistance on lighting techniques and software editing! Take care too! Thank you!

You're welcome, Viv. I looked at the Celestron setup again. If you can turn the scope around backwards and counterweight the stand, that will allow you to max out the scopes working distance and also give you more flexibility with your external lighting. Hopefully, the scope's capability is much greater than the stand. More distance from coin means more light. You will need two $5-20 LED desk lamps after that and you'll be on your way. I use 2 Jansjo lamps from IKEA for close-ups and 2 Mainstays lamps from Walmart for whole coin shots. I will include links for these below for illustration purposes but I would shop around pricewise ( I only paid $6 for the Mainstays lights at Walmart but it appears they have gone up to $15 ).

For those of you who are new to this, please just understand one thing - buying ANY microscope camera at ANY price will NOT turn you into Ray Parkhurst overnight! Even the $1200 DinoLite cannot touch the quality of a Canon DSLR camera with all the trimmings. They're simply two different things. A microscope cam is made for searching and taking really good "Average" pictures. A DSLR is made to take high quality "Precise" pictures and is not made for searching. What Vivien is striving to achieve here is to help you guys find a happy medium that will allow you to both search and take much better than average pics for less than $100. I don't mean to scare you away from the Celestron because I think it's a really good value from what I can tell. Just PLEASE don't think you'll be getting a Bausch and Laumb quality scope and a Canon quality camera all rolled into one. Ain't gonna happen.

I really hope the Celestron can deliver for us. I see so many people on here struggling with poor quality microscope cams just like I did early in my searching days. Bad scopes lead to false attributions, bad pics, and a red arse!! I kid you not when I say this. I shutter to think just how many amateur cherrypickers have simply given up the hobby after posting 20 or 30 coins in a row that they just KNEW was their 1st big find only to be told "Nope. Sorry. All you have there is a normal strike that looks doubled due to your bright, friggin LED lights." !!! I have felt this pain many times and I truly hate to watch anyone go through that. This hobby is meant to be fun, not grief. I'm no expert by any means but I will be glad to offer any help I can as this thread evolves. This is a very important subject where the hobby is concerned in my opinion and I'm really glad to see Viv pursue it.

Tracy

[duece2seven]

I forgot the links for the LED lamps! Keep in mind that there are many variations of these that will work. Here they are:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mainstays-13-75-LED-Desk-Lamp-Black-Finish/45091483?affp1=AP1gdksmQQllExC8bLTjPeCb2RHENVyTfV1 oOSxfeJo&affilsrc=api&u1=BRshop&oid=223073.1&wmlspartner=7EscEsKu1sE&sourceid=01901783400608224034&affillinktype=10&veh=aff

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0055IVM1I/ref=asc_df_B0055IVM1I5201564/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033&creativeASIN=B0055IVM1I&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198070222298&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11099132492405363642&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9011662&hvtargid=pla-350870511541

[Justafarmer]

Thanks Vivien for working on this.
I like the fact that it is American made and the images look good and are "normal".
My last scope (a competitor) had soft ware that was not updated when the new Windows came out so it is useless now. That is why I have a make do system I concocted to use my cell phone.
You may have answered this but does it have the ability to edit and add noted to images it has taken?
Looking forward learning more from them.
IOGear makes a 4 port USB Hub with a manual switch. This allows you to share 4 different USB devices between 2 different computers. Those could be your keyboard, mouse, monitor and a flash drive. Put it between your old system that runs your scope and your new system. Save all files acquired from your scope to the flash drive connected to the Hub/switch. One keyboard, one mouse, one monitor and one common data storage device available to both systems (one or the other) with the push of a button.

[jfines69]

I have moved this thread to The Other Side of the Coin - Off Topic Discussion - Coin Photography!!!

[Petespockets55]

IOGear makes a 4 port USB Hub with a manual switch. This allows you to share 4 different USB devices between 2 different computers. Those could be your keyboard, mouse, monitor and a flash drive. Put it between your old system that runs your scope and your new system. Save all files acquired from your scope to the flash drive connected to the Hub/switch. One keyboard, one mouse, one monitor and one common data storage device available to both systems (one or the other) with the push of a button.
Any chance you can add an image of the setup for reference. Thanks in advance, Cliff
(BTW- the old system is toast from a virus and or meltdown 2 years ago.)

[Justafarmer]

Any chance you can add an image of the setup for reference. Thanks in advance, Cliff
(BTW- the old system is toast from a virus and or meltdown 2 years ago.)


https://www.iogear.com/product/GUS402

If you still have the drivers for your scope - you could probably find an old computer to run it on for almost nothing. Just stick the switch between the old system and your new system and share a USB monitor, keyboard, mouse and flash drive between the two. I don't know but you might could stack another USB Hub in the switch and share more devices.

[GrumpyEd]

IOGear makes a 4 port USB Hub with a manual switch. This allows you to share 4 different USB devices between 2 different computers. Those could be your keyboard, mouse, monitor and a flash drive. Put it between your old system that runs your scope and your new system. Save all files acquired from your scope to the flash drive connected to the Hub/switch. One keyboard, one mouse, one monitor and one common data storage device available to both systems (one or the other) with the push of a button.

Neat, sort of like the old VKM switches they made so you could share video display/keyboard/mouse but made for USB.

[VAB2013]

Thank you for this info Anthony! You are bringing up some of the very same issues I discussed with Celestron. One is the way the photo is taken, which is a clicker on the USB cable. That helps keep the microscope still while clicking a photo, and I believe there is also a delay setting for that also. The other thing is being able to take a full coin photo. It was explained to me that where the microscope connects to the stand, that will loosen up and you can swivel the scope to one side or another which moves it away from the existing platform. So with it set on a sturdy surface (like a hardback book) that lifts the entire thing up about an inch, that allows enough depth to take a full coin photo of a Lincoln cent. (or a Canadian cent which happens to be the example). Another great feature is the ability to adjust the LED lights and actually turn them completely off. The Technical Support person did not have any other type of external lighting at his desk, just the normal lighting of an office, and that Canadian coin came out true color and clear.

Edit: I believe there is also a delay setting for that also.
Not sure so I sent an email to Celestron to find out, will let you all know what they say.

Here is the email I received from Celestron today about the delay setting on the camera:

Hi Vivien,

Yes, You can set this up in the software to take images in intervals. There is a icon that looks like a clock in the software's main screen. It can also be done for video as well.

[VAB2013]

You're welcome, Viv. I looked at the Celestron setup again. If you can turn the scope around backwards and counterweight the stand, that will allow you to max out the scopes working distance and also give you more flexibility with your external lighting.

Tracy

Thank you Tracy, I'm sending Celestron an email asking if the scope can be turned around backwards. He said it will go to one side or another.

Edit: Wrote Tyler @ Celestron back to confirm that the camera will swivel 180 degrees and not just part of the way.

[VAB2013]

Hey Tracy, please tell us the photo editing software you use. Today I downloaded GIMP (free like Photoshop) and I like it, but I know you have a lot of knowledge in this area! Thank you buddy!

[duece2seven]

I have tried several but Helicon Filter software is the best I've used for the money. It's very good. The software far exceeds my technical capabilities for sure. Ray Parkhurst could explain this much better than me but it basically let's you tweak your pics nine ways from Sunday. I let my license expire recently and the one thing I can't remember is if Helicon Filter also includes focus stacking? Their site doesn't say. If not, I know Helicon Focus does. They also used to offer a free 30-60 day trial but I didn't see that offered any longer. Either way the Filter license is only $10-15 per year or you can spend $50 and get the lifetime license. Here's the link below. Check it out and see what you think.

http://www.heliconsoft.com/helicon-filter-licenses/

[VAB2013]

I have tried several but Helicon Filter software is the best I've used for the money. It's very good. The software far exceeds my technical capabilities for sure. Ray Parkhurst could explain this much better than me but it basically let's you tweak your pics nine ways from Sunday. I let my license expire recently and the one thing I can't remember is if Helicon Filter also includes focus stacking? Their site doesn't say. If not, I know Helicon Focus does. They also used to offer a free 30-60 day trial but I didn't see that offered any longer. Either way the Filter license is only $10-15 per year or you can spend $50 and get the lifetime license. Here's the link below. Check it out and see what you think.

http://www.heliconsoft.com/helicon-filter-licenses/

Thanks Tracy! Is the Helicon Focus the same as Helicon Stereo? Not a bad price at all!

It does say:

"Helicon Filter is a shareware program. You can evaluate a fully functional trial version for 30 days. Once the trial period is over, a big promotional banner will appear on the screen until you register the program."

...must be the cherry moon :)
lol.. my font changed and I can't find the right one

[duece2seven]

Thanks Tracy! Is the Helicon Focus the same as Helicon Stereo? Not a bad price at all!

It does say:

"Helicon Filter is a shareware program. You can evaluate a fully functional trial version for 30 days. Once the trial period is over, a big promotional banner will appear on the screen until you register the program."

...must be the cherry moon :)
lol.. my font changed and I can't find the right one







Help I'm drowning in moonshine! :).
I'm not familiar with the Stereo version, Viv. You might PM Ray and see if he knows.

[jfines69]

Thanks Tracy! Is the Helicon Focus the same as Helicon Stereo? Not a bad price at all!

It does say:

"Helicon Filter is a shareware program. You can evaluate a fully functional trial version for 30 days. Once the trial period is over, a big promotional banner will appear on the screen until you register the program."

...must be the cherry moon :)
lol.. my font changed and I can't find the right one






It changed because of the copy and paste operation... The standard font size is close to 3... You can adjust that above in the drop down menu window that states Size... ​I am typing with the Size 3!!!

[jfines69]

I use the Helicon Focus software... Since I am no photographer it is easier for me to get fairly decent pics without needing to take 100s of pics to get 1 good 1... Using the stacking I can take only 3 images and get a fairly good pic... The more I stack the more details show up and with enough images converting to a 3D pic is easy!!!

[VAB2013]

I use the Helicon Focus software... Since I am no photographer it is easier for me to get fairly decent pics without needing to take 100s of pics to get 1 good 1... Using the stacking I can take only 3 images and get a fairly good pic... The more I stack the more details show up and with enough images converting to a 3D pic is easy!!!

Thank you Jim, that answered my question! So Helicon Focus has stacking.

[ray_parkhurst]

Thanks for moving this to the Coin Photography subforum. I had missed it earlier.

For editing, I use Canon's Digital Photo Professional. It's a free download. Go to:

https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/support/details/cameras/support-dslr/eos-rebel-xs?tab=drivers#Z7_MQH8HIC0L88RB0AMD0F1Q42K25

Select the "Drivers and Downloads" tab, and select Digital Photo Professional for download. It's a fairly powerful program that gives you superb and fairly intuitive control of the histogram, white balance, and cropping.

Helicon Focus is used for 2D focus stacking, and once you have completed the 2D stack, you have the option of working with the images in 3D using the included Helicon 3D.

[VAB2013]

Thanks for moving this to the Coin Photography subforum. I had missed it earlier.

For editing, I use Canon's Digital Photo Professional. It's a free download. Go to:

https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/support/details/cameras/support-dslr/eos-rebel-xs?tab=drivers#Z7_MQH8HIC0L88RB0AMD0F1Q42K25

Select the "Drivers and Downloads" tab, and select Digital Photo Professional for download. It's a fairly powerful program that gives you superb and fairly intuitive control of the histogram, white balance, and cropping.

Helicon Focus is used for 2D focus stacking, and once you have completed the 2D stack, you have the option of working with the images in 3D using the included Helicon 3D.

Great information Ray, thank you very much! We are gathering as much information as we can because everyone's needs are different. Your professional advice is greatly appreciated!!!

[ray_parkhurst]

I went ahead and bought one of these to test. Most of the ones I've seen are not worth the trouble but it seems you guys are getting good results so I will put some effort into this one. Will be interesting to see what it can do.

[VAB2013]

I went ahead and bought one of these to test. Most of the ones I've seen are not worth the trouble but it seems you guys are getting good results so I will put some effort into this one. Will be interesting to see what it can do.

You have already ordered the Celestron Handheld Pro?

[ray_parkhurst]

Yes, from Amazon. Should arrive next week.

[VAB2013]

Yes, from Amazon. Should arrive next week.

This is so great! I didn't even ask... very big smile on this girls' face :) Ray, thank you so much! Well folks, the Celestron Handheld Digital Microscope Pro will soon be in the hands of a photography expert! Can't ask for anything better than that!

[ray_parkhurst]

I got my Celestron USB scope yesterday, and tested it out a bit last night and today. I am not done with the evaluation but wanted to give some first impressions before going further:

- The scope plugged in and worked first time upon running the program. No issues with installation. I'm running Win7 Pro
- The minimum magnification is just a bit too low to frame a full Lincoln Cent. It's a shame the post on the stand is not a bit taller, as that would allow a full Cent to be framed
- The focus adjust knob is very stiff. I don't know why, as it doesn't need to be. I'm going to try to loosen it up.
- Because of the way the optics work, it operates in 2 ranges: Low mag from slightly smaller than a Cent to about 1/2 of a Cent; High mag starting at slightly smaller than the date and going down to a wide MM shot.
- The "dead zone" magnification range is an important one...it includes the "money shot" of the full date and MM. I think this can be improved with some modifications and I will try to do this.
- The scope claims "full 5MP sensor" but I don't believe it. I took shots in 5MP, 3MP, 2MP, and 1.3MP modes. I find the best resolution in the 3MP mode.
- The software gives no control over exposure, white balance, etc. It's very simple to use, but does not allow best performance to be adjusted. It told me there was a "new" driver and program, but it just pointed to the same one that came with the scope
- Lighting is VERY blue, so much so that it's impossible to do a simple white balance adjustment after shooting. This basically means the lights are not useable for imaging with true color. I was able to do some level of adjustment after the fact but it's not particularly accurate
- The software over-sharpens the image. This is somewhat expected due to the relatively low resolution, but it limits the ability to focus stack
- The limited resolution makes 3D rendering almost impossible (see example below)

Here is a an image at max magnification without any adjustments:

http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad273/rparkhurst/17101383852828_1.jpg

Same image with some level of WB compensation:

http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad273/rparkhurst/17101383852828_1_1.jpg

Here is a 6-image stack of the same view:

http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad273/rparkhurst/Celestron%20Max%20Mag_1.jpg

Here is the same stacked image, rendered in 3D. The high level of noise shows the resolution is not sufficient for 3D rendering:

http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad273/rparkhurst/Celestron%20Max%20Mag%203D.jpg

Now, this is not a huge problem, as I was not expecting the scope to be able to do 3D rendering, but I was hoping it could!

Here is the lowest magnification available in the "high" range I described above:

http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad273/rparkhurst/Celestron%204-stack_1.jpg

My next steps are:

Remove the clear plastic shield limiting working distance. This should allow a wider range of magnification, hopefully allowing the "money shot" to be framed.
Remove the LED lights and replace with a diffuser
Possibly cut the end of the body to give more lighting flexibility

[TJ1952]

WoW!! That is sweetness!! Brilliant pics Ray!!

[VAB2013]

Thank you very much Ray! It is so cool that you are testing the Celestron Handheld Pro! Your images look great, there's certainly hope for us amateurs! I think your next steps will be even more exciting!

[ray_parkhurst]

I tried shooting with my usual Jansjo LED lights, and it became quickly obvious that the scope is heavily-optimized for white balance using the on-board LEDs. These LEDs have low R and very high B, so the R channel is cranked up and B is suppressed. When trying to use a Jansjo, which is a "warm" LED with lots of R, the R channel is driven to saturation. I must conclude it's not possible to white balance using the Jansjos. The best you can do is using the internal LEDs and adjust white balance manually with a gray reference, then use those settings to adjust levels on each image. That's what I did with the images above.

[ray_parkhurst]

One issue I'm having is that it's hard to focus the scope due to the flexibility of the mounting post, combined with the stiffness of the focusing block. I think this will improve if I can loosen the focus block, but for now it's sort of trial and error. Focus best you can, then let go of the knob, then re-focus a bit, and repeat until you get the shot in best focus.


Edited to add:

I found out why it was so tight...the focus knob was all the way CW, which was "locked". I turned it all the way CCW and now it is very reasonable. The post is still pretty flexible so I'll need to look into how to stiffen it.

[VAB2013]

I tried shooting with my usual Jansjo LED lights, and it became quickly obvious that the scope is heavily-optimized for white balance using the on-board LEDs. These LEDs have low R and very high B, so the R channel is cranked up and B is suppressed. When trying to use a Jansjo, which is a "warm" LED with lots of R, the R channel is driven to saturation. I must conclude it's not possible to white balance using the Jansjos. The best you can do is using the internal LEDs and adjust white balance manually with a gray reference, then use those settings to adjust levels on each image. That's what I did with the images above.

Ray, I'm going to need some help with this explanation... it just went "woof" over my head LOL! If we only knew half of what you know! I know you said you were going to try to remove the LED's and replace with a diffuser maybe after that is done I will understand this process better. So, there is no way to adjust software settings for Brightness, Contrast, Gamma, Hue, Saturation, Sharpness and Exposure? Not a White Balance (Red/Blue) setting adjustment?

[VAB2013]

One issue I'm having is that it's hard to focus the scope due to the flexibility of the mounting post, combined with the stiffness of the focusing block. I think this will improve if I can loosen the focus block, but for now it's sort of trial and error. Focus best you can, then let go of the knob, then re-focus a bit, and repeat until you get the shot in best focus.


Edited to add:

I found out why it was so tight...the focus knob was all the way CW, which was "locked". I turned it all the way CCW and now it is very reasonable. The post is still pretty flexible so I'll need to look into how to stiffen it.

Yay! That's a good thing, better than my idea of WD-40!

[jfines69]

Ray,
On the 3D image you were unable to balance the image out using the smoothness adjustment???

[ray_parkhurst]

Ray, I'm going to need some help with this explanation... it just went "woof" over my head LOL! If we only knew half of what you know! I know you said you were going to try to remove the LED's and replace with a diffuser maybe after that is done I will understand this process better. So, there is no way to adjust software settings for Brightness, Contrast, Gamma, Hue, Saturation, Sharpness and Exposure? Not a White Balance (Red/Blue) setting adjustment?

Correct, there is no adjustment for any parameters at all. I think that's probably the main limitation of this scope. They have optimized the white balance best they could for the particular LED's they selected. These LEDs are very blue, with very little red. The Jansjos are well-balanced, but with more red than blue, so when you use them with the scope, the built-in white balance makes the image bright red. Unfortunately, since the exposure is also optimized for the on-board LEDs, the red is over-exposed, so it's impossible to white balance after taking the image.

Bottom line I don't see any way to make this work with different lighting, so I don't see a reason to remove the on-board LEDs. Without white balance and exposure adjustments, that's the best you can do.

[ray_parkhurst]

Ray,
On the 3D image you were unable to balance the image out using the smoothness adjustment???

I did try increasing the smoothing to 100 but this compressed the vertical amplification. Increasing the vertical amplification to compensate brought back the noise. So in the end I could not get a decent rendering.

[VAB2013]

Correct, there is no adjustment for any parameters at all. I think that's probably the main limitation of this scope. They have optimized the white balance best they could for the particular LED's they selected. These LEDs are very blue, with very little red. The Jansjos are well-balanced, but with more red than blue, so when you use them with the scope, the built-in white balance makes the image bright red. Unfortunately, since the exposure is also optimized for the on-board LEDs, the red is over-exposed, so it's impossible to white balance after taking the image.

Bottom line I don't see any way to make this work with different lighting, so I don't see a reason to remove the on-board LEDs. Without white balance and exposure adjustments, that's the best you can do.

Okay, thank you Ray. Question please... what if you turn off the LED's completely and use the external light source? Would that help with the white balance and achieve a more natural color coin photo? I'm speaking in terms of a full coin photo.

As far as the plastic piece at the bottom that you were going to remove, I am disappointed that it is not automatically removable because it is needed for searching coins by hand. In other words, it is necessary to keep a steady distance between the coin and the microscope with the coin in your hand. If that were removed it would hinder using it as a handheld device.

[ray_parkhurst]

I have tried removing the plastic piece but it's firmly fixed. I expect it to break if I try to remove it.

The comments I made about the white balance problem were indeed with the on-board lights turned off, and only Jansjos used for lighting.

The stand post is just a little too short, so I tried adding some duct tape around the lower part of the microscope (just above the clear plastic piece). This allows the scope to clamp into the holder a couple inches higher than normal, and is plenty high enough to frame a Cent. In this configuration, the lights are at a very high angle, so this creates a lot of contrast and dark edges to the devices. I found that an index card wrapped around the scope and extending well below it makes a good diffuser, and results in a very even lighting. The shot below is with this configuration:

http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad273/rparkhurst/17101492329443_1.jpg

This shot is not horrible, but not very good either. It shows clearly that the software is over-sharpening the image. I had to do quite a bit of color adjustment (mostly reducing the blue).

[VAB2013]

I have tried removing the plastic piece but it's firmly fixed. I expect it to break if I try to remove it.

The comments I made about the white balance problem were indeed with the on-board lights turned off, and only Jansjos used for lighting.

The stand post is just a little too short, so I tried adding some duct tape around the lower part of the microscope (just above the clear plastic piece). This allows the scope to clamp into the holder a couple inches higher than normal, and is plenty high enough to frame a Cent. In this configuration, the lights are at a very high angle, so this creates a lot of contrast and dark edges to the devices. I found that an index card wrapped around the scope and extending well below it makes a good diffuser, and results in a very even lighting. The shot below is with this configuration:

http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad273/rparkhurst/17101492329443_1.jpg

This shot is not horrible, but not very good either. It shows clearly that the software is over-sharpening the image. I had to do quite a bit of color adjustment (mostly reducing the blue).

Thank you Ray, I am getting really tickled over here at the duct tape and index card thing. See... I knew you would eventually get out the duct tape! No telling how many set ups our members are using right now have duct tape somewhere!

Ray, I can see where you think this full coin photo is not very good, but... in comparison to what many of our camera's will do, it's actually pretty good. I can see where the software is over-sharpening the image but it is a full coin photo (which is sometimes impossible to achieve with other microscopes in this price range) and it's clear, not blurry and not overly shiny and distorted with glare from the LED's. You are definitely onto something... I think the index card made a big difference!

[VAB2013]

Correct, there is no adjustment for any parameters at all. I think that's probably the main limitation of this scope.

Very good point Ray! I don't see why Celestron cannot incorporate these color adjustments into their software. The AMCAP software I previously used and the xploview software I am currently using does have setting adjustments for this and it's very basic to understand and adjust.

[VAB2013]

The stand post is just a little too short, so I tried adding some duct tape around the lower part of the microscope (just above the clear plastic piece).

Excellent idea for full coin photos! Ray, will the addition of the duct tape still allow the microscope to be adjusted lower on the post (i.e., for close ups of mint marks)?

It would have been nice if Celestron could have added an extra inch or so to that post huh?

[ray_parkhurst]

Excellent idea for full coin photos! Ray, will the addition of the duct tape still allow the microscope to be adjusted lower on the post (i.e., for close ups of mint marks)?

It would have been nice if Celestron could have added an extra inch or so to that post huh?

Yes it would, though they probably didn't have Cent collectors in mind when they designed the scope.

The scope body is a little too small near the bottom end to mount tightly in the clamp, but the duct tape makes it tight. It can still be easily moved to the normal position by loosening the clamp and pushing the body down, so this makes it flexible.

I understand your point about the quality of the photo, which is why I said it was "not horrible". With just a few tweaks it came out looking decent.

I may still try to remove the plastic skirt from the bottom, since it is keeping me from being able to do the "money shot" for RPM variety imaging, ie the shot with full date and MM filling the screen. IMO that's the most important shot for any system to be able to reproduce, since it's used for identification of any variety or error coin and is the only way to see for sure the relative positions of the MM and date. Cross you fingers the piece comes out without breaking...

[VAB2013]

I may still try to remove the plastic skirt from the bottom, since it is keeping me from being able to do the "money shot" for RPM variety imaging, ie the shot with full date and MM filling the screen. IMO that's the most important shot for any system to be able to reproduce, since it's used for identification of any variety or error coin and is the only way to see for sure the relative positions of the MM and date. Cross you fingers the piece comes out without breaking...

Fingers are crossed! Ray you are so awesome to help us with this and take the time to answer my questions!

That's another thing... that plastic piece is fixed on the Celestron but it is removable on some other microscopes. Well, if it breaks, it breaks... the money shot IS "the most important shot for any system to be able to reproduce" we can figure out what to do without that plastic piece.

[jfines69]

The over sharpening is what makes the coin look heavily pitted I believe!!!

[VAB2013]

The over sharpening is what makes the coin look heavily pitted I believe!!!

I think so too Jim, it's like heavy contrast (in layman's terms LOL)

[ray_parkhurst]

A big pair of pliers broke the plastic skirt free without much damage. Now it goes on and off fairly easily.

Removing the skirt allows the scope to get close enough for the Money Shot. It only needed another 5mm or so. Here is the same coin with on-board lighting, without the skirt:

http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad273/rparkhurst/Celestron%20Money%20Shot_1.jpg

I did discover another "trick" to make the scope work a little better...the automatic exposure has a "range" of exposure values before it changes its exposure settings. If you set the light level fairly high, and slowly reduce it, you'll find that the display will get gradually darker, then will brighten when it drops below the exposure threshold. To get best results, you can snap the shot "just before" the scope changes to the next setting. This avoids over-exposure and gives the best overall result.

[jfines69]

That image isn't to bad... Still looks over sharpened but the details are still visible... Excellent job on that Ray... This is some thing that would work excellent for some one in the entry level of coins until they can get a better set up... Would be better if the scope was made with a removable piece and a longer mount post... Have you tried using the scope with any other software??? Some times a generic twain driver can make so called non compatible devices compatible with a wide range of software!!!

[duece2seven]

Fingers are crossed! Ray you are so awesome to help us with this and take the time to answer my questions!

That's another thing... that plastic piece is fixed on the Celestron but it is removable on some other microscopes. Well, if it breaks, it breaks... the money shot IS "the most important shot for any system to be able to reproduce" we can figure out what to do without that plastic piece.

Ray, to remove the end cap I cut out a paper "disk" to cover the lights and sensor. Then I used a Dremel tool to cut off the cap. It definitely helps with range and lighting.

As far as lighting goes, I've owned an older Celestron, an Andonstar, and 2 DinoLites. All 4 tend to yield overly red or golden images when using the Jansjo lights. After speaking with you and realizing the problem wasn't the lights but the scope itself, I switched over to the brighter, " whiter" Mainstays lamps and the situation improved. These things just don't take in the light like conventional cameras do nor do they adjust to post editing as well. Simply put you don't want to ask a USB scope to "think". My experience has taught me that if I can't achieve optimal color and brighteness before the shot, I'm very unlikely to achieve it post shot.

You might try using one of your dual halogen lamps on this thing, Ray. I'd be really curious to see if that helps any. It just seems to me that brighter and whiter works better.

Tracy

[VAB2013]

We really need to find an alternative to photobucket! I have never seen so many ads in all my life! It's not photobucket anymore, it's "place your ad here"!!!

....still waiting for the pic to load

[VAB2013]

A big pair of pliers broke the plastic skirt free without much damage. Now it goes on and off fairly easily.

Removing the skirt allows the scope to get close enough for the Money Shot. It only needed another 5mm or so. Here is the same coin with on-board lighting, without the skirt:

http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad273/rparkhurst/Celestron%20Money%20Shot_1.jpg

I did discover another "trick" to make the scope work a little better...the automatic exposure has a "range" of exposure values before it changes its exposure settings. If you set the light level fairly high, and slowly reduce it, you'll find that the display will get gradually darker, then will brighten when it drops below the exposure threshold. To get best results, you can snap the shot "just before" the scope changes to the next setting. This avoids over-exposure and gives the best overall result.

That's it! Ray, that is a really nice money shot for a microscope under $100 bucks! We are so fortunate to have you test the Celestron and we really appreciate all of the time and expense you have invested into this endeavor! All of your findings and comments are very important and will be most helpful to those of us who decide to purchase the microscope! You have already done the hard part, that would take us hours and days to figure out! Thank you so much!

Also, just so our members know, if you want something more than what this microscope will do, Ray is your guy!

[ray_parkhurst]

I'm glad to spend some time with the scope, coaxing the best images out of it I can. My assessment is that with a bit of work it's possible to get decent images from it. In summary, here are the "special" things I needed to do (besides the basics of focus/composition/levels adjustment) to achieve the above shot:
1) Remove the clear plastic skirt. This is critical since with the skirt in place the above image is not possible from the scope
2) Take a test shot of a white index card and adjust histogram color channels to give approximate white balance. Save the settings for application to each subsequent image
3) "Darken" the shot by dimming the lights slightly, but not enough to cause the auto-exposure algorithm to set a slower exposure time
4) Ensure the scope is set to 3MP (2048x1536) before snapping the shot
5) Apply the test shot / white balance adjustments to the image
6) Downsize the image to 1024x768 for publishing

For the full-Cent image, I had to additionally do the following:
7) Add tape to build up the diameter of the scope just above the clear skirt so the clamp can hold it in place
8) Add an index card reflector, wrapped around the body of the scope and extending to within 1" of the coin

I can explain any of the above further if you or others have questions.

[VAB2013]

I'm glad to spend some time with the scope, coaxing the best images out of it I can. My assessment is that with a bit of work it's possible to get decent images from it. In summary, here are the "special" things I needed to do (besides the basics of focus/composition/levels adjustment) to achieve the above shot:
1) Remove the clear plastic skirt. This is critical since with the skirt in place the above image is not possible from the scope
2) Take a test shot of a white index card and adjust histogram color channels to give approximate white balance. Save the settings for application to each subsequent image
3) "Darken" the shot by dimming the lights slightly, but not enough to cause the auto-exposure algorithm to set a slower exposure time
4) Ensure the scope is set to 3MP (2048x1536) before snapping the shot
5) Apply the test shot / white balance adjustments to the image
6) Downsize the image to 1024x768 for publishing

For the full-Cent image, I had to additionally do the following:
7) Add tape to build up the diameter of the scope just above the clear skirt so the clamp can hold it in place
8) Add an index card reflector, wrapped around the body of the scope and extending to within 1" of the coin

I can explain any of the above further if you or others have questions.

Awesome Ray! This is exactly what I was waiting for! I would like for Celestron Research & Development to see your suggestions and I will invite them to this thread in my next correspondence with Tyler in Technical Support.

Ray, you know we will have more questions. We can't thank you enough for helping us and our hobby with your expertise in photography and applying your great knowledge to this product!

[VAB2013]

Ray, please give me your website address. I am preparing an email to send to Celestron and I would like to give them your information as well.

[ray_parkhurst]

It's www.macrocoins.com.

[VAB2013]

It's www.macrocoins.com (http://www.macrocoins.com).

Great, thank you Ray! Email has been sent!

btw... I have been viewing your awesome website and looking at your incredible photos! I found one thing you will need to check on... this link, the photo is not working properly, or it's just my computer?

http://www.macrocoins.com/1951d-bies.html

[jfines69]

Great, thank you Ray! Email has been sent!

btw... I have been viewing your awesome website and looking at your incredible photos! I found one thing you will need to check on... this link, the photo is not working properly, or it's just my computer?

http://www.macrocoins.com/1951d-bies.html
Not just you Vivien... It is small and real fuzzy or my coke bottles just went :LOL_Hair:

[VAB2013]

Thank you Jim, yep that's what it looks like to me too!

[ray_parkhurst]

Ahh, that page is "under construction". I still need to image my 51-D BIEs.

[VAB2013]

Ahh, that page is "under construction". I still need to image my 51-D BIEs.

Okay, gotcha! Wow Ray, you helped us out and you still have work to do of your own! Thanks man.. we appreciate you!

[VAB2013]

At the direction of Tyler at Celestron, today I contacted Oceanside Photo & Telescope in Oceanside, California and was given Ginny's email address to find out the best way for our members to order the Celestron Handheld Digital Pro. Come to find out, Oceanside Photo & Telescope is Celestron's largest distributor! Here is OPT's info! https://optcorp.com/pages/about-opt-telescopes

Even better, Ginny and her husband are originally from Nashville, my home town! This is going to be a fun endeavor!

[ray_parkhurst]

Okay, gotcha! Wow Ray, you helped us out and you still have work to do of your own! Thanks man.. we appreciate you!

It's all about priorities, and wanting to finish what I start. I have multiple lifetimes worth of projects in queue :squigglemouth:

[VAB2013]

It's all about priorities, and wanting to finish what I start. I have multiple lifetimes worth of projects in queue :squigglemouth:

Ray, that sure sounds like a long to-do list! You will get there, one camera click at a time! Looking forward to seeing and hearing more about your upcoming projects! Thank you for everything you do to help us on the forum!

[ray_parkhurst]

Update on the Celestron...

I ended up buying a taller shaft, see here:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-inch-length-x-5-8-inch-dia-Aluminum-Tubing-by-Actobotics-Part-635272/282397018531?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

This brings the scope high enough to frame Dollars.

[VAB2013]

Update on the Celestron...

I ended up buying a taller shaft, see here:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-inch-length-x-5-8-inch-dia-Aluminum-Tubing-by-Actobotics-Part-635272/282397018531?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

This brings the scope high enough to frame Dollars.

This is awesome Ray! You found the perfect solution to raising the scope up! No duct tape required! Some day when you have time, it would be great to see a photo of how you are putting all of this together!

[jfines69]

Cool Ray... Looks like the duct tape sales are going to drop off now :LOL_Hair:

[VAB2013]

Just had a very nice conversation with Oceanside Photo & Telescope in California! Come to find out, the salesperson I was speaking with has been saving pennies for years. He hopped on the LCF website and browsed around as we were talking. I have a feeling he is going to be taking a closer look at the penny hoard he has at home and joining us on the forum! He also gave me the name of a person to call next week! Really nice people at OPT, thank you!

[makecents]

Today I had a great conversation with a Technical Support Representative at Celestron. As soon as I told him I had questions about viewing and taking photos of Lincoln cents, the nice gentleman told me that he is also a coin collector! He answered all of my questions and even emailed me a couple of coin pics he snapped at his desk while we were talking! Of course, I emailed him back at Celestron with information about the LCF and asked him to come join us! Made my day:)

As some of you know, Tracy (duecetoseven) has been helping me research digital microscopes and we both narrowed it down to the Celestron Handheld Digital Microscope Pro as the best product at the best price.

A few days ago, I asked Maineman if it was okay... if Celestron or one of their distributors, might be willing to offer members of the forum an incentive, a small discount or free shipping maybe... Well the awesome Tech Support person said he would forward my information to their Sales and Marketing Division! So... not counting our chicken's before they hatch, but what an awesome guy!

There's so much information to share about this... but attached are the two pics. Two of my main concerns were... will the microscope take a full coin photo and can you turn the LED lights completely off and just use natural light and the answer is yes and yes.

The stand has to be turned to one side just a tad and placed on about a 1" thick book but that will lift the stand up enough to get a full coin photo (Canadian cent is with the stand done this way and the LED lights turned completely off, just natural light) The Lincoln cent photo is with the LED lights on, and of course the microscope will zoom in more for close ups.

I was going to wait and post this after I heard back from Celestron, but so many of you have been asking about where to find a good digital microscope and I didn't want to wait... and you go buy something else without checking into this one!

Here are a few links... feel free to ask questions, if I don't know the answer, I certainly know who to call :) Thank you Celestron!!!

https://www.celestron.com/products/handheld-digital-microscope-pro

https://www.celestron.com/blogs/team-celestron

No idea which microscope was used to take the photo of the Amazon Rainforest Blue Morpho Dragonfly but it is so awesome looking I wanted you to see it!
Nice work Vivien!! I need to do something different and this might be the route to go.

[VAB2013]

Nice work Vivien!! I need to do something different and this might be the route to go.

Thank you Jon! I'm still trying to put something together for LCF Members to order through OPT. OPT sells planet shaking telescope systems, check out their site https://optcorp.com/

they are also a Celestron distributor. I think it's cool that the Celestron Technical Support guy, and now the salesperson I spoke with at OPT today, well they are both coin collectors so they were very interested in what we do at the LCF!

[jfines69]

Cool Vivien... Thanks for the update and info... Got to be careful with those planets shakers... No telling what may shake loose :LOL_Hair:

[VAB2013]

Cool Vivien... Thanks for the update and info... Got to be careful with those planets shakers... No telling what may shake loose :LOL_Hair:

You're welcome Jim! The photos of the plants on OTP's website are really cool looking and some of those telescopes are huge! Made me think of Jason's awesome coin photos that looked like the surface of the moon!

[ray_parkhurst]

You're welcome Jim! The photos of the plants on OTP's website are really cool looking and some of those telescopes are huge! Made me think of Jason's awesome coin photos that looked like the surface of the moon!

Which photos are those Viv? I don't think I've seen them but am very interested. Do you have a link?

[VAB2013]

Which photos are those Viv? I don't think I've seen them but am very interested. Do you have a link?

Ray, I will look for them, it was a Proof cent and one of our guys even posted a pic of the moon in comparison.

Edit: Found it http://www.lincolncentforum.com/forum/showthread.php?40239-1960-proof-801&highlight=1960+proof

[ray_parkhurst]

Thanks Viv!

[VAB2013]

Thanks Viv!

You're welcome Ray! Have you seen any Proof cents with a bumpy field like that 1960?

[ray_parkhurst]

You're welcome Ray! Have you seen any Proof cents with a bumpy field like that 1960?

I've seen it on a few Proof cents from the late 50's. I'm not sure the explanation but it seems to happen after the die has been used a while. Maybe it is micro grain structure of the metal, with small grains being removed by polishing, and the "craters" in the die smoothed over by further polishing. I'm sure it is something like that, a figment of the metallurgy of the die and the polishing process.

[VAB2013]

I've seen it on a few Proof cents from the late 50's. I'm not sure the explanation but it seems to happen after the die has been used a while. Maybe it is micro grain structure of the metal, with small grains being removed by polishing, and the "craters" in the die smoothed over by further polishing. I'm sure it is something like that, a figment of the metallurgy of the die and the polishing process.

Thank you Ray! I would imagine the polishing process, even for Proof cents has changed quite a bit over the years. One just expects a Proof to be perfect!

[jfines69]

Looks like the die on that proof had pitting from corrosion!!!

[VAB2013]

Looks like the die on that proof had pitting from corrosion!!!

Surely they wouldn't use a pitted die for Proof's, but then... that was back in the 60's when people didn't throw anything away

[jfines69]

Surely they wouldn't use a pitted die for Proof's, but then... that was back in the 60's when people didn't throw anything away
Only if they could tell it were pitted... Those dies are worse than 5 bricks of 2017Ps :LOL_Hair:

[TPring]

Any updates on this thread?

Just wondering if anybody [besides Ray] got this scope and what they think about it -- Or other scopes [even if they cost a bit more].

I am looking to 'Up' my game in photographing these coins. Are there other setups [maybe analog]? I have heard mixed reviews on the USB scopes.

Can it also capture die scratches?

Thanks

[Petespockets55]

Any updates on this thread?

Just wondering if anybody [besides Ray] got this scope and what they think about it -- Or other scopes [even if they cost a bit more].

I am looking to 'Up' my game in photographing these coins. Are there other setups [maybe analog]? I have heard mixed reviews on the USB scopes.

Can it also capture die scratches?

ThanksI used to have one that worked before a Windows update and it would capture scratches. The light needs to be as close to 90 degrees to the scratch to show up the best.

[VAB2013]

Any updates on this thread?

Just wondering if anybody [besides Ray] got this scope and what they think about it -- Or other scopes [even if they cost a bit more].

I am looking to 'Up' my game in photographing these coins. Are there other setups [maybe analog]? I have heard mixed reviews on the USB scopes.

Can it also capture die scratches?

Thanks

Yes, I have one coming in Friday I think. My son ordered it and he gets the tracking updates and I have not been updated.

[TPring]

Yes, I am going to order one today and it should be here by 12/30.

Special shout-out to Ray for taking time to order one and give feedback -- That is going above and beyond.

Also big thanks to you [VAB] for checking this out and following through.

[VAB2013]

Yes, I am going to order one today and it should be here by 12/30.

Special shout-out to Ray for taking time to order one and give feedback -- That is going above and beyond.

Also big thanks to you [VAB] for checking this out and following through.

You are welcome TPring! That's cool you have one coming in also! We can figure this thing out together! And of course, if we have any problems, Ray is an awesome guy to help us out!

[VAB2013]

Well Ray, I may need a little help please! My Celestron came in today and I am wondering how much pulling and tugging you had to do to get the clear plastic guide off?

Also, I am reading your notes and one thing I have noticed right away is... the image looks nice and clear but once the pic is taken the pic looks pitted and grainy.

[MiciDragan]

Hi Viv,

Are there any options that can be changed in terms of format of the saved image? It would be great if it could save in other than JPEG. Also, what about taking a print screen of the preview, will it be better than the actual saved image? Perhaps try to reduce gain or ISO format if there is any on the camera.

Mici

[ray_parkhurst]

Well Ray, I may need a little help please! My Celestron came in today and I am wondering how much pulling and tugging you had to do to get the clear plastic guide off?

Also, I am reading your notes and one thing I have noticed right away is... the image looks nice and clear but once the pic is taken the pic looks pitted and grainy.

Hi Viv,

It was not easy. I used a pair of pliers with paper to keep from doing too much damage to the clear piece, though I did not really care so much since it is not all that useful. I planned on wrenching on it til it gave loose, or broke into pieces. It gave loose first.

I don't remember seeing much difference between the live image and the captured pic. Are you looking at the same final image size?

[VAB2013]

Hi Viv,

It was not easy. I used a pair of pliers with paper to keep from doing too much damage to the clear piece, though I did not really care so much since it is not all that useful. I planned on wrenching on it til it gave loose, or broke into pieces. It gave loose first.

I don't remember seeing much difference between the live image and the captured pic. Are you looking at the same final image size?

Thank you Ray, I was able to get the clear plastic guide off without too much trouble, it did crack when I clamped down on it with pliers. Then I just pulled on it in several different places and it popped off. It's just glued on so removing it did not damage the LED's or anything.

I do not see an option in the settings for final image size. I am shooting it at 3 MP. Also playing around with lighting. The LED's give the coin a purple cast. Here is the before and after difference, just by adjusting the light in the room, and also the "EDIT" below.

Edit: Also I made a paper template with a small hole for the lens and then made a tissue paper filter from that and taped it on to cover the LED's.

[TPring]

...I do not see an option in the settings for final image size.



If you are using the Celestron MicroCapture Pro program that comes with the scope, go to Options > Resolution.

edit: Do you see a way to save the original as anything other than .jpg?

[VAB2013]

If you are using the Celestron MicroCapture Pro program that comes with the scope, go to Options > Resolution.

Thank you TPring! Yes I am using that software and I had that set to 3MP, but didn't see how to downsize the photo to 1024x768 for publishing. So I just put the photo in paint, resized it to 1024x768 and saved it as a .png to see if that would make a difference. I have attached that photo to see if it looks any different. Can you tell a difference? They look the same to me.

edit: Do you see a way to save the original as anything other than .jpg?

Yes, either jpg, bmp, png or tif. But png's don't open automatically when you click them, you have to download them first so I didn't choose that one. (at least that's what it does on my computer)

[VAB2013]

2) Take a test shot of a white index card and adjust histogram color channels to give approximate white balance. Save the settings for application to each subsequent image
3) "Darken" the shot by dimming the lights slightly, but not enough to cause the auto-exposure algorithm to set a slower exposure time
5) Apply the test shot / white balance adjustments to the image


This is the part I can't figure out. I did notice the light was fluctuating, but now that I have covered the LED's with tissue paper I am wondering if that is going to cause me to not be able to do what Ray is describing above.

[VAB2013]

Been having fun with this Celestron! Still a long way to go to be able to produce a photo as nice as Ray did with this microscope, but here's my first attempt at a full coin photo. Never been able to take a full coin photo for about five years so I'm pretty excited!

Edit: I looked all over the house for black paper LOL... finally found that my son had a bottle of cologne in a black box, so I tore the flap off the box! I think the black background helped. Now I need to find a better black background.

[TPring]

Been having fun with this Celestron! Still a long way to go to be able to produce a photo as nice as Ray did with this microscope...

LOL -- practice, practice, patience.


2) Take a test shot of a white index card and adjust histogram color channels to give approximate white balance. Save the settings for application to each subsequent image
3) "Darken" the shot by dimming the lights slightly, but not enough to cause the auto-exposure algorithm to set a slower exposure time
5) Apply the test shot / white balance adjustments to the image

I was thinking some of what Ray described [#2 & #5] was in his Canon software.
I think #3 is a timing issue with the LEDs and snapping the pic.

Hopefully he will be able to shed some light on this [no pun intended:tinysmile_classes_t].

[VAB2013]

Hi Viv,

Are there any options that can be changed in terms of format of the saved image? It would be great if it could save in other than JPEG. Also, what about taking a print screen of the preview, will it be better than the actual saved image? Perhaps try to reduce gain or ISO format if there is any on the camera.

Mici

Hi Mici! Thank you for this information, part of it was very helpful and the other part is over my head! You gave me the idea to check photo formats and you are exactly correct, a png is higher quality than a jpg and that is easy for me to understand!

Now, when you start talking about reducing gain or ISO format, I get seriously lost :squigglemouth:

[VAB2013]

LOL -- practice, practice, patience.


2) Take a test shot of a white index card and adjust histogram color channels to give approximate white balance. Save the settings for application to each subsequent image
3) "Darken" the shot by dimming the lights slightly, but not enough to cause the auto-exposure algorithm to set a slower exposure time
5) Apply the test shot / white balance adjustments to the image

I was thinking some of what Ray described [#2 & #5] was in his Canon software.
I think #3 is a timing issue with the LEDs and snapping the pic.

Hopefully he will be able to shed some light on this [no pun intended:tinysmile_classes_t].

:LOL_Hair: you are right TPring, these things take time and patience! Today I moved my desk to a window because I am thinking natural light might be a good thing. We'll see!

Yep, right again, those settings ray is referring to must be in his Canon software. Should we try to get that software? Can we?

[makecents]

Very nice pics Viv!! It's always fun to get a new toy and figuring it out.

[VAB2013]

Very nice pics Viv!! It's always fun to get a new toy and figuring it out.

Thank you Jon! The most exciting thing for me is, I think I can do it! It's crazy... I rearrange furniture in my house all of the time... but I really don't like change. I was stuck with that old piece of whatever you want to call it, and it was easy. I was worried this would be too hard, but it's not.

[makecents]

Thank you Jon! The most exciting thing for me is, I think I can do it! It's crazy... I rearrange furniture in my house all of the time... but I really don't like change. I was stuck with that old piece of whatever you want to call it, and it was easy. I was worried this would be too hard, but it's not.
I totally understand the change thing. I can be a knucklehead about it, even when I know it's for the better. On the "natural light" factor, I personally do not think that there is anything that beats it but it is hard to manipulate the sun.... Depending on what you are taking pics of and for what reasons, shadows will sometimes show things that light will not. Lighting has always been my Achilles tendon.

[VAB2013]

I totally understand the change thing. I can be a knucklehead about it, even when I know it's for the better. On the "natural light" factor, I personally do not think that there is anything that beats it but it is hard to manipulate the sun.... Depending on what you are taking pics of and for what reasons, shadows will sometimes show things that light will not. Lighting has always been my Achilles tendon.

Thank you Jon! I didn't realize how much lighting matters until today. I had to take the filter I made off the LED's, raise the scope up as far as it would go, then started experimenting with different lighting. My son was helping me, we turned on all of the lights, opened all of the windows and I tried the rolled up index card "tunnel" thing Ray was talking about, but shooting it without it seemed to work better under the conditions the extra light helped. Now my desk is directly in front of a window so during the day I can experiment with natural light.

[MiciDragan]

Hi Viv,

What a magnification you can get on the details. It's crazy! I think this is the way to go in order to find RMP and other fine details.
ISO settings are used on digital cameras and they regulate sensitivity of the camera. Low ISO like 100 will require a lot of light in order to expose the image. High ISO like 800 or 1600 will need much less light but the image will be very grainy instead. I am suspecting that the camera might take the photo on high ISO value and because of that the image is grainy. (On some cameras one can adjust gain which should be the same as ISO). I am almost sure that there is some kind of gain setting in the software.

BMP format is very large but it's less compressed than JPEG and PNG and might be less grainy. Try to save one image in all three formats and let us know if there was any difference between the,


Good luck and have fun with the equipment.

Mici

[jfines69]

Been having fun with this Celestron! Still a long way to go to be able to produce a photo as nice as Ray did with this microscope, but here's my first attempt at a full coin photo. Never been able to take a full coin photo for about five years so I'm pretty excited!

Edit: I looked all over the house for black paper LOL... finally found that my son had a bottle of cologne in a black box, so I tore the flap off the box! I think the black background helped. Now I need to find a better black background.
Nice full image of a nice DDO... Slightly out of focus at 500% magnification and that is awesome... The grainy look may have something to do with light intensity and focus??? There are areas of the background on your pic that are in still focus at 500% with out any apparent grainy features close to the rim from the D of GOD around to the date!!!

[ray_parkhurst]

:LOL_Hair: you are right TPring, these things take time and patience! Today I moved my desk to a window because I am thinking natural light might be a good thing. We'll see!

Yep, right again, those settings ray is referring to must be in his Canon software. Should we try to get that software? Can we?

The Canon software is a free download from the Canon website. There are many other programs that can do similar things, but I like the Canon software since it's fairly intuitive yet powerful. It also has a few cropping and adjustment features that are hard to find in other programs. For instance it has an auto white balance function that is very cool, though you must have a grey reference in the photo to work with. Without the grey reference, you must use the workflow I described to get accurate color.

[VAB2013]

Ray is this the software? http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/product/canon_software/inside_digital_photo_professional.do

or do I need to go here and type in a model number? https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/support/?cm_sp=home-_-cso-_-driversdownloads

When you refer to "grey reference" could that be paper? Dark grey, light grey??

[ray_parkhurst]

The first link is a tutorial. Second link is the download site. Type in EOS Rebel XS or similar and then select whatever shows up. I think they only have the latest software available so it doesn't matter what you enter.

For grey reference, I usually just use a white index card. They are a pretty good reference.

[VAB2013]

The first link is a tutorial. Second link is the download site. Type in EOS Rebel XS or similar and then select whatever shows up. I think they only have the latest software available so it doesn't matter what you enter.

For grey reference, I usually just use a white index card. They are a pretty good reference.

Great, thank you Ray! Going there now to get it!

LOL... the index card I use to place Lincoln's on gets dirty in a hurry! But, my fingers are not getting as dirty :) I have plenty of index cards tho...

[VAB2013]

Ray, there are two

Digital Photo Professional and
Picture Style Editor

I tried the Picture Style Editor first and the only file type I recognized is a tif - saved my png as a tif and the software would not open it.

Then I tried to download the Digital Photo Professional and it requires a product serial number.

Do you have any other ideas? I have already tried GIMP and paint.net and was not real thrilled with them. And the photo thing that comes with Windows 10 is... pretty bad.

[ray_parkhurst]

Hmm, I did not know DPP required a product serial number. Thought it was a free download. Sorry for that. I can provide a serial number if you want to try it and see if it works better for you than the others you've tried. Nikon has a similar product (Nikon View or Nikon View 2) but they may have gone to a serial number requirement as well. A couple years ago neither required a serial number to download the editor, just the control software. Maybe an old version can be downloaded from another site. I will look around.

edited to add: I found a free download site and will try it...http://digital-photo-professional.en.lo4d.com/

[VAB2013]

Hmm, I did not know DPP required a product serial number. Thought it was a free download. Sorry for that. I can provide a serial number if you want to try it and see if it works better for you than the others you've tried. Nikon has a similar product (Nikon View or Nikon View 2) but they may have gone to a serial number requirement as well. A couple years ago neither required a serial number to download the editor, just the control software. Maybe an old version can be downloaded from another site. I will look around.

edited to add: I found a free download site and will try it...http://digital-photo-professional.en.lo4d.com/

Thank you Ray, I'm downloading from the link you provided right now!

Edit: The program is working fine and I really like it! You are pretty awesome Ray! TY!!

[ray_parkhurst]

Excellent!

Let me know if you have questions about how to do something you want to do and I will write out a step by step workflow instruction.

[VAB2013]

Update: I emailed Tyler at Celestron and asked him about the software deficiencies as far as not being able to adjust color. He said unfortunately there is nothing we can do about the software.

Ray's software suggestion here is excellent edited to add: I found a free download site and will try it...http://digital-photo-professional.en.lo4d.com/

My next question for Ray and Celestron is if they think a color correction lighting gel filter would help, and if so... what color? (whenever I can use natural daylight that works best, otherwise the tissue paper filter works okay, but it seems to be messing with the focus and clarity somewhat)

This has turned out to be a great scope for searching large quantities of Lincolns in that it's easy, fast, easy on the back and neck, and it has very good magnification. It's just the LED lights that are making photos difficult. I'm still trying to find goose neck lights that do not have LED bulbs. I think with the right lighting, it will make a great difference in the photos!

[VAB2013]

This is my first doubled die find 5 years ago. It is coppercoins.com 1983P-1DO-001.

These were taken with natural light and just a side swing arm lamp with a normal light bulb to try to compensate for the natural light not being quite enough. Well then the sun came out and I had to close the window curtain!

Since the light is not shining where I want it to be, I had to turn the coin into the light to capture the notching in LIBERTY and the rest of the motto.

Question for Ray... Will the grey thing at the top of the pole come off? I took the tiny screw out of it and pulled on it. I need to move the scope up just a tiny bit to get a full coin photo. (and also look for the pole extension you found)

It is not easy to fine focus when your subject has poor lighting bouncing all over the place! I could have spent more time and probably made these photos better, but I want to get back to searching rolls!

[VAB2013]

Thank you Jon for taking a look. Please tell me... are the photos opening up automatically or are you having to download them first? They are actually saved on my computer as .png's but they are showing up on the forum as .jpg's

[makecents]

Thank you Jon for taking a look. Please tell me... are the photos opening up automatically or are you having to download them first? They are actually saved on my computer as .png's but they are showing up on the forum as .jpg'sThey are opening up without a download. Nice pics to by the way and a nice DDO to cut your teeth on!!

[VAB2013]

They are opening up without a download. Nice pics to by the way and a nice DDO to cut your teeth on!!

Thank you Jon! Yes it was, I will never forget my first doubled die! But... this was a tricky one to attribute because of the reverse die change at MDS. Took over 2 years until some more of them turned up on the forum with the same reverse marker at FG. It was however, a very good one to learn on... kind of threw me in hot water right off the bat!

[jfines69]

Those are really ice images Vivien!!!

[VAB2013]

Those are really ice images Vivien!!!

Thank you Jim, still need some work on this lighting issue though. Daylight is good, but even that is not dependable... the sun comes and goes right in the middle of things!

[duece2seven]

Nice coin and nice pics, Viv! Very nice detail, too. I'm impressed with your glare control.
If you can take what I call a "quiet" pic with little or no glare of an early 80's copper beast,
you're definitely doing it right.

Tracy

[duece2seven]

Update: I emailed Tyler at Celestron and asked him about the software deficiencies as far as not being able to adjust color. He said unfortunately there is nothing we can do about the software.

Ray's software suggestion here is excellent edited to add: I found a free download site and will try it...http://digital-photo-professional.en.lo4d.com/

My next question for Ray and Celestron is if they think a color correction lighting gel filter would help, and if so... what color? (whenever I can use natural daylight that works best, otherwise the tissue paper filter works okay, but it seems to be messing with the focus and clarity somewhat)

This has turned out to be a great scope for searching large quantities of Lincolns in that it's easy, fast, easy on the back and neck, and it has very good magnification. It's just the LED lights that are making photos difficult. I'm still trying to find goose neck lights that do not have LED bulbs. I think with the right lighting, it will make a great difference in the photos!


Viv, here's a link for the gel sheets. I currently use the gold one in combination with white printer paper to actually cover the LED's and shoot close-ups.
I cut them to match the LED's putting the paper on top with the gel sheet portion facing downward towards the coin. Your color won't be perfect but it will
enable you to capture notching and separation without any external lighting on most coins. However, it won't help much on the full coin shots using the LED's.
I've haven't tried them yet but I've always wanted to try one of these gel sheets in "Daylight" color on my external light sources. If you search Amazon, they do
offer the Daylight sheets somewhere on there but they're hard to find in just that color. They usually make you buy them as part of a bundle like the link below.

And remember not to try too hard to be perfect with this stuff! :). Your pics are plenty good for what we do here. Anything better is just gravy!

Amazon link:

https://www.amazon.com/Neewer-12-Inches-Transparent-Correction-Different/dp/B01CCIKB5Q/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1516015820&sr=8-4&keywords=gel+filter+sheet

[ray_parkhurst]

Update: I emailed Tyler at Celestron and asked him about the software deficiencies as far as not being able to adjust color. He said unfortunately there is nothing we can do about the software.

Ray's software suggestion here is excellent edited to add: I found a free download site and will try it...http://digital-photo-professional.en.lo4d.com/

My next question for Ray and Celestron is if they think a color correction lighting gel filter would help, and if so... what color? (whenever I can use natural daylight that works best, otherwise the tissue paper filter works okay, but it seems to be messing with the focus and clarity somewhat)

This has turned out to be a great scope for searching large quantities of Lincolns in that it's easy, fast, easy on the back and neck, and it has very good magnification. It's just the LED lights that are making photos difficult. I'm still trying to find goose neck lights that do not have LED bulbs. I think with the right lighting, it will make a great difference in the photos!

Are you thinking about filtering the light to change its color? If so, that won't help. You would need to add the filter between the coin and the camera. Might be worth a try.

edit: just read the response above...not sure how it's helping.

[ray_parkhurst]

This is my first doubled die find 5 years ago. It is coppercoins.com 1983P-1DO-001.

These were taken with natural light and just a side swing arm lamp with a normal light bulb to try to compensate for the natural light not being quite enough. Well then the sun came out and I had to close the window curtain!

Since the light is not shining where I want it to be, I had to turn the coin into the light to capture the notching in LIBERTY and the rest of the motto.

Question for Ray... Will the grey thing at the top of the pole come off? I took the tiny screw out of it and pulled on it. I need to move the scope up just a tiny bit to get a full coin photo. (and also look for the pole extension you found)

It is not easy to fine focus when your subject has poor lighting bouncing all over the place! I could have spent more time and probably made these photos better, but I want to get back to searching rolls!

The cap comes right off from mine. I just left it off after removing it.

[VAB2013]

Viv, here's a link for the gel sheets. I currently use the gold one in combination with white printer paper to actually cover the LED's and shoot close-ups.
I cut them to match the LED's putting the paper on top with the gel sheet portion facing downward towards the coin. Your color won't be perfect but it will
enable you to capture notching and separation without any external lighting on most coins. However, it won't help much on the full coin shots using the LED's.
I've haven't tried them yet but I've always wanted to try one of these gel sheets in "Daylight" color on my external light sources. If you search Amazon, they do
offer the Daylight sheets somewhere on there but they're hard to find in just that color. They usually make you buy them as part of a bundle like the link below.

And remember not to try too hard to be perfect with this stuff! :). Your pics are plenty good for what we do here. Anything better is just gravy!

Amazon link:

https://www.amazon.com/Neewer-12-Inches-Transparent-Correction-Different/dp/B01CCIKB5Q/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1516015820&sr=8-4&keywords=gel+filter+sheet

Thank you so much Tracy! That is exactly what I was wondering about, and what color to use! That is a great idea to try these on your external lights, I would have never thought of that!

[VAB2013]

The cap comes right off from mine. I just left it off after removing it.

Thank you very much Ray! The grey thing on the end of the pole is not wanting to come off and I took the little screw out. Wanted to ask you if it was needed in order to use the pole extender before I damage it trying to pry it off.

[duece2seven]

Viv, here are a few examples of what I was talking about. These pics were taken with my 1.3 mp DinoLite using only plain white printer paper fixed over the LED's for diffusion. The 3 closeup pics were set and kept at default settings for brightness,etc., which is pretty bright compared to where I would normally set it using the built-in Dino software. If I remembered correctly, you don't have much built-in adjustment with your Celestron so I'm trying to give you a similar comparison to your situation. Can you see with the close-ups how the variance in distance changes the glare? You just kinda have to find your sweet spot with your close-ups but even that will change for different coins with different textures and brightness. If you were to add the gold gel sheets to this equation, it would reduce the glare by roughly 20-40 percent on the edges of the devices. I couldn't find my gel filter ring tonight which highly annoys me but I think this comparison will give you a pretty good idea of what I mentioned in my earlier post.

Now, check out the my whole coin shot, Viv. It was taken with built-in LED's off and using 2 Jansjo LED lamps diffused with a ripped up T-shirt at 10 and 2 o'clock and angled downward about 60 degrees. I also placed a plain piece of glass angled slightly downward and facing opposite the 2 lamps. It was edited in post but I simply brightened this one just a bit. I know you don't like the Janjo LED's, Viv, but give this technique using the glass a try and let me know how it works for you. It's the only technique I've found that works for my shorter working distance DinoLite. The color isn't perfect and I'd prefer more overall light but it's as close as I'm capable of getting at this point. For these shots my scope was only about 5 inches over the coin. Good luck!

[Petespockets55]

They look good.
And the angled glass helps reduce the glare that is reflected back to the lens, correct?

[VAB2013]

Thank you so much Tracy for this explanation and photos! Just waiting on the coffee to finish brewing so I can sit and read over this a few more times. One thing about the LED's on the Celestron that I really like is, you can turn them off completely or slowly turn them back on adding small amounts of light as you go. But, I prefer to have the LED's completely off. The smallest amount of LED light and the coin starts looking like cotton candy.

[duece2seven]

They look good.
And the angled glass helps reduce the glare that is reflected back to the lens, correct?

Well, Pete, I'm really not sure to be honest. It just seems to even out the color on the coin and helps to shine light on the the bottom
of the devices opposite the light source. To be clear, though, I am not using axial lighting. I am simply leaning a 4x6 pane of glass
against the scope opposite the lights. It sits just short of vertical. I wish my technical knowledge were better but I'm really just a
hacker. I just keep firing bullets until I hit something! Luckily, when I do hit the target, I can always go into Forrest Gump mode and
find someone around here to " explain things to me so I can understand them" !! :tinysmile_eyebrow_t

[Petespockets55]

Well, Pete, I'm really not sure to be honest. It just seems to even out the color on the coin and helps to shine light on the the bottom
of the devices opposite the light source. To be clear, though, I am not using axial lighting. I am simply leaning a 4x6 pane of glass
against the scope opposite the lights. It sits just short of vertical....
Ah, so a little light reflects off the glass onto the coin being imaged. Interesting tidbit.



......I wish my technical knowledge were better but I'm really just a
hacker. I just keep firing bullets until I hit something! Luckily, when I do hit the target, I can always go into Forrest Gump mode and
find someone around here to " explain things to me so I can understand them" !! :tinysmile_eyebrow_t

:sign10: Thanks for the chuckle. I feel like that most of the time myself.

[VAB2013]

Viv, here are a few examples of what I was talking about. These pics were taken with my 1.3 mp DinoLite using only plain white printer paper fixed over the LED's for diffusion. The 3 closeup pics were set and kept at default settings for brightness,etc., which is pretty bright compared to where I would normally set it using the built-in Dino software. If I remembered correctly, you don't have much built-in adjustment with your Celestron so I'm trying to give you a similar comparison to your situation. Can you see with the close-ups how the variance in distance changes the glare? You just kinda have to find your sweet spot with your close-ups but even that will change for different coins with different textures and brightness. If you were to add the gold gel sheets to this equation, it would reduce the glare by roughly 20-40 percent on the edges of the devices. I couldn't find my gel filter ring tonight which highly annoys me but I think this comparison will give you a pretty good idea of what I mentioned in my earlier post.

Now, check out the my whole coin shot, Viv. It was taken with built-in LED's off and using 2 Jansjo LED lamps diffused with a ripped up T-shirt at 10 and 2 o'clock and angled downward about 60 degrees. I also placed a plain piece of glass angled slightly downward and facing opposite the 2 lamps. It was edited in post but I simply brightened this one just a bit. I know you don't like the Janjo LED's, Viv, but give this technique using the glass a try and let me know how it works for you. It's the only technique I've found that works for my shorter working distance DinoLite. The color isn't perfect and I'd prefer more overall light but it's as close as I'm capable of getting at this point. For these shots my scope was only about 5 inches over the coin. Good luck!

Thank you Tracy for these photos! Sorry it has taken me a day to digest all of this but I have been thinking about it and trying to figure out all of the steps you have mentioned. I am not sure, but I have been wondering about this. Do you think that adding the paper filter over the scope LED's, or even the gel paper, causes the scope to show less detail, clarity, not sure of the right word, sharpness, the edges of the devices look out of focus. I've been experimenting with that and ended up taking the paper filter off and I think that helped. I can focus better that way but the LED lights are a bust... they have to go. Even with the LED's turned down as low as they will go... the light on the coin is horrible, especially up close. So, I am not sure what the glass would do in this equation but I will have to get some and try it!

Edit: Tracy I am referring to the on board LED lights above. I am willing to try Jansjo lights, but wanted to find something cheaper without LED's if possible.

[duece2seven]

Thank you Tracy for these photos! Sorry it has taken me a day to digest all of this but I have been thinking about it and trying to figure out all of the steps you have mentioned. I am not sure, but I have been wondering about this. Do you think that adding the paper filter over the scope LED's, or even the gel paper, causes the scope to show less detail, clarity, not sure of the right word, sharpness, the edges of the devices look out of focus. I've been experimenting with that and ended up taking the paper filter off and I think that helped. I can focus better that way but the LED lights are a bust... they have to go. Even with the LED's turned down as low as they will go... the light on the coin is horrible, especially up close. So, I am not sure what the glass would do in this equation but I will have to get some and try it!

Edit: Tracy I am referring to the on board LED lights above. I am willing to try Jansjo lights, but wanted to find something cheaper without LED's if possible.

I fought this for years, Viv. It's frustrating I know. Tell me something- what is your maximum usable height from scope to coin? This will tell me alot. Using natural light is tough. The problem with natural light is inconsistency. It's just too hard to light the entire coin evenly. And, when you only have light from one side, it causes you to see things that aren't there and miss things that are there. No matter which light source you use you really need light from 2 sides to even out the image.
Oh yeah, I should have mentioned the main reason I switched back to the Jansjo lamps was flexibility. They are the only lamps I've found that have are small enough and flexible enough to put light exactly where I want it. This is a big deal because every coin is different. I don't prefer their color either but they're just so easy to use. I've arrived to the conclusion that these types of scopes-even mine- will likely never interpret color the way I want them to so I now just focus on WHERE I shine the light. If you can't get the light where you need it, there is no post adjustment program that can truly fix that. Does that make sense?

[duece2seven]

Also, I don't think that filtering your on board lights cuts down on detail. It does, however, lower the total amount of light which can lower detail. You just have to play with the brightness until it works for you. Overall, I think the combination of paper and gold gel filter yielded my best results.

[VAB2013]

I fought this for years, Viv. It's frustrating I know. Tell me something- what is your maximum usable height from scope to coin? This will tell me alot. Using natural light is tough. The problem with natural light is inconsistency. It's just too hard to light the entire coin evenly. And, when you only have light from one side, it causes you to see things that aren't there and miss things that are there. No matter which light source you use you really need light from 2 sides to even out the image.
Oh yeah, I should have mentioned the main reason I switched back to the Jansjo lamps was flexibility. They are the only lamps I've found that have are small enough and flexible enough to put light exactly where I want it. This is a big deal because every coin is different. I don't prefer their color either but they're just so easy to use. I've arrived to the conclusion that these types of scopes-even mine- will likely never interpret color the way I want them to so I now just focus on WHERE I shine the light. If you can't get the light where you need it, there is no post adjustment program that can truly fix that. Does that make sense?

Yes, thank you! You just described perfectly what I am going through now! The closest I can get the scope to the coin and still focus is 5/8". That does not allow much natural light to come into the equation. I really appreciate your comment on the flexibility of the Jansjo's because now that makes perfect sense! Anything else bigger with less flexibility will not work. Dang... if someone made a light, like the Jansjo but with a different bulb, that would be awesome! I want to get away from LED's really bad, they mess things up too much!

Edit: Tracy, that is why the plastic guide on the scope had to be removed. That 2/16 of an inch difference, makes a difference when trying to zoom into mint marks, etc.

[VAB2013]

Also, I don't think that filtering your on board lights cuts down on detail. It does, however, lower the total amount of light which can lower detail. You just have to play with the brightness until it works for you. Overall, I think the combination of paper and gold gel filter yielded my best results.

Bingo, that is exactly what it is doing! Wow Tracy, if you could design a scope and lighting and put that on the market, you'd be rich!