1927D-1MM-002 Revisit

[stoneman227]

I posted this coin before but never really studied the rpm . Took some more shots to see if I could prove or disprove this rpm as it was questioned. To me this looks to be an rpm with a lot going on. The red arrows point to what look to be splits and the black arrow points to what looks to be a serif. Thoughts ?

John

http://www.lincolncentforum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=125770&stc=1

http://www.lincolncentforum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=125771&stc=1

[jfines69]

Very interesting... I can not see any splits... Both serifs have taken hits by the looks of it... There is also circ wear that has flattened out the face of the MM... VV list only one MM for the 1927 D - MMS-001 http://varietyvista.com/01b%20LC%20Doubled%20Dies%20Vol%202/Denver%20Mintmark%20Styles.htm Could you post a close up of the date/MM???

[Petespockets55]

John, thanks for posting because they are really nice images.
The top red arrow seems to be obstructing part of the ding from a hit that is carried over from the MM (Not a split in the serif).
The area below where the bottom arrow is pointing seems to be unusually bumpy. Could this area be from die polishing?

Here is a question I'm not sure about: What would cause the odd angle to the top third of right vertical bar?

[VAB2013]

Very nice images John, and an awesome looking 27D Wheat! That's a tough one for sure. Coppercoins' 002 appears to be flattened at the vertical bar from circulation wear, but you have a whole lot of something going on here!

[makecents]

There is so much happening there it is hard for me to tell. The black arrow pointing at what you are questioning as a serif looks to me like a heavy polishing line.

[mustbebob]

John...This one is not the same as 1MM-002. I made mention that the one on coppercoins needed to be verified as I was unsure when attributing it if it was an RPM or MD. The fact that this die is a Class 4 DDO is the primary reason it is listed. I think your excellent pics do more to disprove it as an RPM than help. It obviously does have some slide type MD and by virtue of that, anything around it (such as possible notches) is suspect. I see nothing compelling that tells me this is an RPM. I can not tell if your coin has the DDO but the mint mark positioning is close. I am really concerned about the 'hump' in the vertical bar of the mint mark. My take is that this is not an RPM at all and can not be listed because of the damage to the mint mark.

[stoneman227]

Goodness , this is what happens when you think it is a good idea to find time to post something at three in the morning !
Not enough information to properly ID a die. Here are the pics of the doubling and date/MM
Sorry all , and many thanks for the observations and pointing me in the right direction on this one !

John



http://www.lincolncentforum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=125795&stc=1

http://www.lincolncentforum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=125796&stc=1

http://www.lincolncentforum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=125797&stc=1

[VAB2013]

Thank you John for these additional images! Geez 3 am, you sound like me... sometimes it takes me that long in the day/night to get around to things I've been wanting to do!

Your images do an awesome job of showing this DDO variety! This is a great looking 27D too and I really like the "woody" appearance of it! It would have been nice if your wheat could have been the one to solve this uncertain RPM question. But... I have confidence in you that you may just find one that will!

Edit: John, I had not seen extreme slide MD personally until I found the 2016 WDDO-015 and the L of Liberty looks partially sheared off, but in the opposite direction of your RPM. I wasn't sure if that is what I was seeing on your RPM, but it was nice of Bob to stop by and confirm that for us.

[jfines69]

Thanks for the follow up images they are awesome... I do see the DDO and the MM position looks spot on... There is only one listed MM style on VV for 1927 http://varietyvista.com/01b%20LC%20Doubled%20Dies%20Vol%202/Denver%20Mintmark%20Styles.htm MMS-001 which was used from 1911 thru 1933... To me yours looks to be a combo of 2 punchings but I am not 100% sure do to the hits on the serifs and of course what looks like slide MD???

[mustbebob]

Thanks for the additional pics. It sure answers a lot of questions. I feel comfortable enough to eliminate the possible RPM from the coppercoins listing. Wexler lists this as WDDO-003/WRPM-005 but his RPM pics are still different from this. 3 coins have been seen and the mintmark looks different on each one. Pretty compelling that this should not be listed as an RPM. Awesome job John. Thanks!!!

[stoneman227]

Any day I can play a part in solving a numismatic mystery ( even if I was headed east when I should have gone west ) is a darned good day !
Thanks Bob !

John

[VAB2013]

Any day I can play a part in solving a numismatic mystery ( even if I was headed east when I should have gone west ) is a darned good day !
Thanks Bob !

John

Awesome work John! You and Bob solved this mystery and you didn't have to go looking for another 27D! Great work guys! Thank you Bob!

[jfines69]

That is very convincing to have three different coins with the MMs appearing different... Way to go John you helped solve a mystery!!!

[eaxtellcoin]

Hey everyone - I told John I would add one that I had found also. Compelling though that I thought this coin was the same die - position with the mintmark but it is not. I think I agree with Bob that the machine damage is more likely the case on all these with this type of secondary. If you look at this one it's east also but the primary mintmark position is just a bit different.

[mustbebob]

machine damage is more likely the case on all these with this type of secondary. If you look at this one it's east also but the primary mintmark position is just a bit different.

I agree Eric. I just hadn't seen enough of these prior to this week. All I have seen have been different. I have updated the coppercoins listing. I thank everyone for your help with this die.

[centMD]

Unfortunately not great photos, but here are some shots of one of my examples.

http://www.lincolncentforum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=125879&stc=1http://www.lincolncentforum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=125880&stc=1

[jfines69]

Cool Dan... Excellent example of no RPM!!!

[Petespockets55]

Cool Dan... Excellent example of no RPM!!!
Jim, Look a little closer at the MM.:tinysmile_twink_t:

[mustbebob]

I don't see a verifiable RPM here either. 5th example I have seen, 5th different looking mint mark. The MD is not as noticeable on this coin.

[Petespockets55]

Cool Dan... Excellent example of no RPM!!!


I don't see a verifiable RPM here either. 5th example I have seen, 5th different looking mint mark. The MD is not as noticeable on this coin.

My bad Jim, I thought there was an upper serif protruding west from the middle of the vertical bar and the lower serif extending east from the lower curve of the MM.

[jfines69]

My bad Jim, I thought there was an upper serif protruding west from the middle of the vertical bar and the lower serif extending east from the lower curve of the MM.
I had to go clean my glasses :LOL_Hair: Thought I missed something as it would not be the first or last time :LOL_Hair: