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I'm wondering if this is a new DDO or just the WWHO-002. The notching at the southeast corners looks more extreme though and the B looks all out of sorts. This one was a mean one to get pics of. Let me know what you think. http://doubleddie.com/2318537.html
Jon, I think I see a die dot or gouge between the R and T on the WWHO-002 do you see it on your coin? I see something there.
If the delisted ones were still on the site (but shown as delisted) that might make things easier to determine by knowing the markers of those, at least narrow it down some.
I'm not sure Viv, it might be there but there is a lot of other junk in there too, can't really tell. I was doing the same thing, trying to find any little marker. The notching just seemed a lot more extreme on this one than any other listing to me.
Thank you Jon for the date pic, not seeing anything there but I think yours does have more notching on the SE corners of Liberty! Let's see what the guys say!
I think it is WWHO-002 http://doubleddie.com/2318537.html There appears to be a small die dot showing on Wexlers sample on the ESE corner of the Bs lower bump and unless the lighting is causing it there appears to be a die dot on your coin also just slightly larger... What looks like more of a slant on the TY looks to be from circ wear displacing metal and the shadow along the east side just not 100% sure tho???
Jim (A.K.A. Elmer Fudd) Be verwy verwy quiet... I'm hunting coins!!! Good Hunting!!!
I think it is WWHO-002 http://doubleddie.com/2318537.html There appears to be a small die dot showing on Wexlers sample on the ESE corner of the Bs lower bump and unless the lighting is causing it there appears to be a die dot on your coin also just slightly larger... What looks like more of a slant on the TY looks to be from circ wear displacing metal and the shadow along the east side just not 100% sure tho???
That makes cents about the die wear, this one definitely has an LDS look to it. I kept trying to find some sort of markers from Wexlers pics and could not match any but you found a good one, I didn't even pay attention to little bit of the B that was showing. Thanks Jim!! Another spot on attribution!!
That makes cents about the die wear, this one definitely has an LDS look to it. I kept trying to find some sort of markers from Wexlers pics and could not match any but you found a good one, I didn't even pay attention to little bit of the B that was showing. Thanks Jim!! Another spot on attribution!!
Glad I could help... Eventually everything will make cents
Jim (A.K.A. Elmer Fudd) Be verwy verwy quiet... I'm hunting coins!!! Good Hunting!!!
On the WWHOs aren't there a bunch of dies so markers might be partially useless unless the pics of the listed coin by chance matches the die used for the coin you find.
I'm asking, seriously (even though it's probably a silly question) because I haven't been doing much with shield cents at all so I don't have a feeling for if it's easy to find WWHOs like older master doubled dies or if they're more scarce because there's still a lot of dies without it. Are there really a bunch of different dies (roughly how many??) for each of these WWHOs?
On the WWHOs aren't there a bunch of dies so markers might be partially useless unless the pics of the listed coin by chance matches the die used for the coin you find.
I'm asking, seriously (even though it's probably a silly question) because I haven't been doing much with shield cents at all so I don't have a feeling for if it's easy to find WWHOs like older master doubled dies or if they're more scarce because there's still a lot of dies without it. Are there really a bunch of different dies (roughly how many??) for each of these WWHOs?
Ed, a couple of years ago I asked Maineman the same question when I first started going through solid boxes of Shield's and I cannot remember the number, but I was surprised at his estimate on the number of different dies used, it was a very large number...
I found the thread, it was estimated by Maineman and Will to be between 8,000 to 12,000 different dies. Here is the link to that thread
Since I am going through 2016P's I have found 11 trail dies and a lot of duplicates of them.
To try to make my searching easier, I am photographing a reverse marker for each different die I see. I don't think one is an earlier die state of the other because the reverse marker is strong on every one. So far I have seen 13
On the WWHOs aren't there a bunch of dies so markers might be partially useless unless the pics of the listed coin by chance matches the die used for the coin you find.
I'm asking, seriously (even though it's probably a silly question) because I haven't been doing much with shield cents at all so I don't have a feeling for if it's easy to find WWHOs like older master doubled dies or if they're more scarce because there's still a lot of dies without it. Are there really a bunch of different dies (roughly how many??) for each of these WWHOs?
To some extent, the 2017 P's have become a little project of mine. I called this out a couple of months ago figuring this would happen. There were just too many similarities between the varieties. As of right now with Wexlers attributions there are 8 WWHO-001'S and 3 WWHO-002'S. It's a mess!
I just realized you guys were talking about dies. Wow, that's a whole different can of worms, I was just talking about the different varieties that were involved in the WWHO's.
To some extent the 2017 P's have become a little project of mine. I called this out a couple of months ago figuring this would happen. There were just too many similarities between the varieties. As of right now with Wexlers attributions there are 8 WWHO-001'S and 3 WWHO-002'S. It's a mess!
Jon, I was updating the thread just above yours at the same time you were posting. Considering the huge number of dies used in a year's time, no wonder this has become such a mess! I'm trying to remember other years with doubled working hubs, 1989 comes to my mind but I'm sure there are other years.
Ed, a couple of years ago I asked Maineman the same question when I first started going through solid boxes of Shield's and I cannot remember the number, but I was surprised at his estimate on the number of different dies used, it was a very large number...
What I mean is out of that 8000-12000 how many would be the same WWHO.
Somewhere on here there is a thread that shows dies relating back upstream like a tree.
Like in 72 with the master doubling, it was like hundreds of dies have the master doubling.
That's really my question, at the WWHO level I'm wondering based on a die tree like that if that means a few or tens or hundreds or thousands of different dies per WWHO.
What I mean is out of that 8000-12000 how many would be the same WWHO.
Somewhere on here there is a thread that shows dies relating back upstream like a tree.
Like in 72 with the master doubling, it was like hundreds of dies have the master doubling.
That's really my question, at the WWHO level I'm wondering based on a die tree like that if that means a few or tens or hundreds or thousands of different dies per WWHO.
Given the fact that the 2 WWHO's were just realized I would think that would take a bit of a study to figure. JMHO.
Be verwy verwy quiet... I'm hunting coins!!! Good Hunting!!!
about the die wear, this one definitely has an LDS look to it. I kept trying to find some sort of markers from Wexlers pics and could not match any but you found a good one, I didn't even pay attention to little bit of the B that was showing. Thanks Jim!! Another spot on attribution!!
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