1960D SD RPM needing help!

[VAB2013]

Well guys, sorry but I have done all I know to do with this one. I haven't soaked in it acetone yet because it really doesn't need it but I am going to try that and see if the split serifs will show up better and if so try to get a better pic.

Not sure if that is a split serif on the top of the MM but after going to all the ones with just lower splits, I also checked all of the listings for upper and lower and still could not find this one. Help please!

These 60D SD's have a lot of die chips, thought that might help narrow it down, but no...

Thank you all for looking and helping!

Edit: There are no die scratches on this coin, makes for a real eggnogger!

[Roller]

There is a top and bottom split. I don't attribute my own 1960 Ds so can't help you there Viv. Good luck. Larry may be up to it though.

[VAB2013]

There is a top and bottom split. I don't attribute my own 1960 Ds so can't help you there Viv. Good luck. Larry may be up to it though.

Thank you Roller! Your confirmation of the top split will help me know which ones to look at closer!

Yeah, I'm hoping Larry J. and Jim or some of the other guys might be familiar with the die chip and die crack.

[makecents]

Wow Viv!! That is one good looking coin!! That's good and bad I guess. I think I'll wait until one of the big dawgs chimes in, because I cannot believe that chip between the T and Y would not be a dead giveaway for those in the know!

[VAB2013]

Wow Viv!! That is one good looking coin!! That's good and bad I guess. I think I'll wait until one of the big dawgs chimes in, because I cannot believe that chip between the T and Y would not be a dead giveaway for those in the know!

Thank you Jon! While we wait, I'm going back through the ones on coppercoins, variety vista and wexler with splits on top and bottom.

[mustbebob]

That one is easy. It's 1960D-1MM-345527 1/2:~

[VAB2013]

That one is easy. It's 1960D-1MM-345527 1/2:~

:LOL_Hair: Oh Bob, you had me going for a second! Hope this doesn't mean it going to be a hard one to figure out :)

[makecents]

That one is easy. It's 1960D-1MM-345527 1/2:~I'm not sure if that is a good or bad sign!:O I dove in a couple of minutes after I said I would wait. I making notes as I go but am coming up emty...

[makecents]

Question for future reference. Do splits get wider with die wear?

[VAB2013]

I'm not sure if that is a good or bad sign!:O I dove in a couple of minutes after I said I would wait. I making notes as I go but am coming up emty...

I know Jon, it nice though when Bob can make us laugh about RPM's... that's why eggnog is "attributed" to Bob in the Glossary. Can you imagine having his job?!

Yes, I keep coming up empty too but we don't give up that easy around here! I think the position of the splits is what's messing with me, better pics showing location of splits would probably help, trying...

[VAB2013]

Question for future reference. Do splits get wider with die wear?

Good question, I don't know.

[VAB2013]

Here's a little bit better pic of the RPM, I think the acetone helped clean whatever gunk was in those split serifs.

[centMD]

Here you go, yours is a D/D/D. WRPM-149 matches perfectly. Yours is a little bit later die state than Brian Ribar's example as it has the large die gouge/break on the CE of CENT but not the die chip between TY of LIBERTY. Additionally, your die scratches south of the 9 are weaker, but still identifiable.

https://www2.briansvarietycoins.com/shop/view/118

[VAB2013]

Here you go, yours is a D/D/D. WRPM-149 matches perfectly. Yours is a little bit later die state than Brian Ribar's example as it has the large die gouge/break on the CE of CENT but not the die chip between TY of LIBERTY. Additionally, your die scratches south of the 9 are weaker, but still identifiable.

https://www2.briansvarietycoins.com/shop/view/118

Awesome Dan! Thank you so much! I would not have seen this as a D/D/D, appreciate your help very much!!!

[VAB2013]

Dan, I wanted to determine what Stage it is and could not get to Wexler's listing for the WRPM-149 D/D/D Tilted, page one for that section would not open. Is it the same as Variety Vista SM 1960D RPM 104? If it is, I'm thinking it's late Stage B.

[centMD]

Actually John Wexler has not listed past 1950-D for the Lincoln cent RPMs with the exception of 1959-D and a few scattered RPMs that he himself personally knew. Unfortunately it may be years before the actual listing number is online for this coin. For now, you'll just have to accept Brian Ribar's coin for comparison and note to re-check it once Wexler is able to put online the files for his WRPM listings.

Brian Ribar would have been the original submitter for this variety, and as such would likely have the only verified examples, so congratulations on a very difficult find!

[VAB2013]

Actually John Wexler has not listed past 1950-D for the Lincoln cent RPMs with the exception of 1959-D and a few scattered RPMs that he himself personally knew. Unfortunately it may be years before the actual listing number is online for this coin. For now, you'll just have to accept Brian Ribar's coin for comparison and note to re-check it once Wexler is able to put online the files for his WRPM listings.

Brian Ribar would have been the original submitter for this variety, and as such would likely have the only verified examples, so congratulations on a very difficult find!

Thank you Dan for this info! It was not really a hard find, just popped out of a roll, but I understand what you are saying. Thank you for making it easy to attribute, been trying to figure this one out for days :)

[centMD]

Though I'm not sure what WRPM would match with RPM-104, this coin is not a match as 104 is closer to the 9 and has an additional horizontal bar in the inside of the lower mint mark. It would probably be too minor for Wiles to list in the future as well.

[VAB2013]

Though I'm not sure what WRPM would match with RPM-104, this coin is not a match as 104 is closer to the 9 and has an additional horizontal bar in the inside of the lower mint mark. It would probably be too minor for Wiles to list in the future as well.

Got it, thank you! Wonder if I will ever be able to compare the position of the MM to the date? I feel like I will never get it :(

[jfines69]

Nice find Vivien... Looks like a perfect match to Brians WRPM-0149... Looking thru CC 157 looks really close http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/diestate.php?date=1960&die_id=1960d1mm157&die_state=mds not 100% sure tho... There appears to be the small die dots or abrasions just off the tail of the 9 like yours and the one on Brians???

[joel]

Congrats on a fine 60D RPM find Vivien!! Thanks also to Dan for his skill and involvement!!

[VAB2013]

Congrats on a fine 60D RPM find Vivien!! Thanks also to Dan for his skill and involvement!!

Thank you Larry J! I agree with you, it was very nice of Dan to help us on this one, it was not easy!

[makecents]

Congrats Viv!! I was scouring but someone who knew a lot more than I ever will hooked you up! That's a good one!

[mustbebob]

Question for future reference. Do splits get wider with die wear?

I thought I had answered this before, but I guess I never submitted my answer. The 'answer' is no. The splits do not get wider with die wear. With that being said, die wear can indeed affect the way the mint mark (or any device for that matter) looks. There are some RPMs that actually get easier to see with die wear as the constant striking will tend to wear off a layer of metal and exposing more of the primary mintmark. Maybe someone else knows off the top of their head, but I will try to get an example of this and post it.

[makecents]

I thought I had answered this before, but I guess I never submitted my answer. The 'answer' is no. The splits do not get wider with die wear. With that being said, die wear can indeed affect the way the mint mark (or any device for that matter) looks. There are some RPMs that actually get easier to see with die wear as the constant striking will tend to wear off a layer of metal and exposing more of the primary mintmark. Maybe someone else knows off the top of their head, but I will try to get an example of this and post it.Thank you sir!

[centMD]

Glad I was able to help out Viv! It's fun when I can get a tough one like yours!

Dan

[VAB2013]

Glad I was able to help out Viv! It's fun when I can get a tough one like yours!

Dan

Dan, I know you are a great cherry picker, but to remember seeing this random RPM is beyond excellence! Thank you!

[TPring]

There are some RPMs that actually get easier to see with die wear as the constant striking will tend to wear off a layer of metal and exposing more of the primary mintmark. Maybe someone else knows off the top of their head, but I will try to get an example of this and post it.


Could that be the reason that so many 1982Ds look like they have a MM below an eroding MM? Since they were using old, worn-out dies.


For instance, this example (http://coppercoins.com/lincoln/diestate.php?date=1982&die_id=1982d1mm004&die_state=lds) looks to have an intact 'spine' underneath the 'eroding spine'.

In the above example, is that actually the original MM?


Sorry Viv, not meaning to hi-jack your thread -- Inquiring minds want to know.:angel:

[VAB2013]

Could that be the reason that so many 1982Ds look like they have a MM below an eroding MM? Since they were using old, worn-out dies.


For instance, this example (http://coppercoins.com/lincoln/diestate.php?date=1982&die_id=1982d1mm004&die_state=lds) looks to have an intact 'spine' underneath the 'eroding spine'.

In the above example, is that actually the original MM?


Sorry Viv, not meaning to hi-jack your thread -- Inquiring minds want to know.:angel:

No problem TPring, we all want to know and everyone's input is helpful!

[mustbebob]

Could that be the reason that so many 1982Ds look like they have a MM below an eroding MM? Since they were using old, worn-out dies.

I don't quite know how you meant this statement. The mint marks were punched when the dies were new. The same punch was hit more than once while they were punching in the mint mark. Whether the repunch was immediate, or after an attempt to abrade an errant mark is unknown in most cases. Old worn out dies only come into play on how the RPM looks after continued striking of coins. Since the coin you linked to is an LDS, you see the die flow lines are pretty well established. In cases like this the 'intact' spine as you put it has no where near the wear as the top layers of the coin and it makes sense that it might appear more solid than the worn example.

[VAB2013]

JC listed this as LDB7-1960D(SD)-002 BH+ on cuds on coins, here is the link http://cuds-on-coins.com/ldb7-1960d/

He also included a photo of the RPM! Thank you JC, very neat!

[makecents]

JC listed this as LDB7-1960D(SD)-002 BH+ on cuds on coins, here is the link http://cuds-on-coins.com/ldb7-1960d/

He also included a photo of the RPM! Thank you JC, very neat!Very cool Viv, congrats!!

[jfines69]

JC listed this as LDB7-1960D(SD)-002 BH+ on cuds on coins, here is the link http://cuds-on-coins.com/ldb7-1960d/

He also included a photo of the RPM! Thank you JC, very neat!
Cool Vivien... Thanks for the follow up!!!

[Petespockets55]

Congratulations Viv.
Nice seeing all your hard work, determination and patience pay you dividends on this one.