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It might add competition for the coin between cud collectors and RPM collectors which could affect the price though.
But I don't see any cud at the link. I see an retained interior die break at the left wheat. There isn't an image of a cud but if it is as large as the RIDB then I would say the cud might be the more valuable of the two.
Last edited by Petespockets55; 03-09-2019, 02:45 AM.
Reason: sp
You might need to go down to stage C where it becomes a cud
Thanks Ed. (And I thought I was an early riser! You're at least 2 hours behind me in here Fl.) I see where they refer to it as a retained cud in stage C marker images.
So is that widened die crack that extends to the rim considered a cud. I thought a cud had to be a certain size (larger than a crack)?
And I'm guessing the whole RIDB didn't fall out to create a cud.
EDIT: Now I see where stages C & D have the images labeled as retained cud. So I guess it never fell out completely.
Stages E & F don't have images of the left wheat area for comparison.
And the image of the off center strike appear to be closer to a stage B!! (Based on the early RIDB in the off center image) ????
Hmmmm....
I just noticed the stage B images show a die crack from the O (ONE) to L (EPU) but it is gone in stage C.
How is it possible for a die crack to dissappear?
Thanks in advance.
Last edited by Petespockets55; 03-09-2019, 04:08 AM.
Reason: sp
Does a cud add any premium to a LWC?
.
edit: In particular, on a 1940s RPM-7 CUD-12 which begins with the reverse die change at Stage C and continues through to Stage D.
To answer your question T, yes a cud does add a premium. The more substantial the cud the more of a premium.
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Interesting.
Maybe they polished it but I don't see signs of polishing. It doesn't make sense to me how it can vanish while the cud area grew.
Not sure why it shows then vanished.
They call it a retained cud in the link? Listed as RPM 7 / Cud 12.
It does go to the rim and it is displaced so I think cud fits it.
So if it is an arching rim-to-rim crack and the 'piece' stays put then it's just that, a die crack.
If it is an arching rim-to-rim crack and the 'piece' has shifted then it is a retained cud.
If it is an arching rim-to-rim crack and the 'piece' has been ejected, then it is a full-blown cud [basically just a blob of metal where the die broke away].
Would that be a correct summarization?
note: I specified 'arching' to differentiate that from a lineal rim-to-rim die crack that basically splits the coin into two equal halves.
Doesn't seem possible but could it actually be two dies with a very similar die crack in the early stages?
As I recall 1940-s is notorious for having RIDB on lots of dies.
(I'm thinking of Bob's tutorial on similar looking markers last year and how they can affect attribution.)
Different dies... Notice the location of the crack in Stage B vs Stage C and the slight displacement of the leaves to the west... Stage B looks like it could be a retained cud??? On the off center it may be a Stage A??? The secondary MM strengthens Stage B thru F... I can not tell for sure on the off center but the secondary MM looks really weak (barely visible)... Maybe the off center strike is what caused the cracks in Stage B???
Jim (A.K.A. Elmer Fudd) Be verwy verwy quiet... I'm hunting coins!!! Good Hunting!!!
So if it is an arching rim-to-rim crack and the 'piece' stays put then it's just that, a die crack.
If it is an arching rim-to-rim crack and the 'piece' has shifted then it is a retained cud.
If it is an arching rim-to-rim crack and the 'piece' has been ejected, then it is a full-blown cud [basically just a blob of metal where the die broke away].
Would that be a correct summarization?
note: I specified 'arching' to differentiate that from a lineal rim-to-rim die crack that basically splits the coin into two equal halves.
Thanks for any insight you can provide.
A crack shows up when there is sufficient pressure to move the metal on both sides of the crack that allows metal to flow in... Cracks can go rim to rim or be in the middle of a coin... They can be straight or arched... If the crack is joined on both ends and the piece is broken loose from the main part of the die then any movement would show up and be considered a retained interior die break... No visible displacement and it is a crack... Should the displaced piece fall out then you have a die chip unless it is big enough to be classified as a die break...
A rim to rim crack would be a pre cud if there is no displacement of the metal within the cracked area... When the piece breaks loose from the die and displacement is visible then we get a retained cud... When the broken piece falls out then we have the cud... Hope that helps a bit!!!
Jim (A.K.A. Elmer Fudd) Be verwy verwy quiet... I'm hunting coins!!! Good Hunting!!!
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