1972 ddo FS-104 in Teletrade auction 3114

[1sgret]

This happens somewhat frequently on teletrade. I don't know if its on purpose, but I have purchased misattributed coins in the past. There was another 72 FS-104 misattributed a few months ago, remember?

That one turned out to be correctly attributed as it it had the correct markers on the reverse. The slab covered the obverse and you could not see the cuds and it was Wexler's Stage "C".

[DCW]

Ok, thanks for the update on that one. I thought the speculation was that this ddo was so rare because it was pulled from production early? Had no idea that it made it to stage c, but I guess die life is relative to how quickly the die deteriorates and not x amount of coins.

[1sgret]

Your assumption is the same as other attributers on how quickly the die deteriorated and not the amount of coins struck.

Wexler WDDO-004 Stage A - No Rim Cuds
Wexler WDDO-004 Stage B - One small Rim Cud
Wexler WDDO-004 Stage C - Multiple Rim Cuds (It is believed it was pulled/or went out of of Service here)
Wexler Stage D - WDDO-004 Reverse paired with a Non-Doubled Die Obverse and goes through Stage "G"

[jcuve]

Ok, thanks for the update on that one. I thought the speculation was that this ddo was so rare because it was pulled from production early? Had no idea that it made it to stage c, but I guess die life is relative to how quickly the die deteriorates and not x amount of coins.

Remember die stages do not always reflect or coincide with die state. Stages just indicate a moment when a noteworthy change occurs to the die. I do not believe the stage C goes beyond EMDS, that is if it even hits EMDS, and instead stays at EDS (which it might bu I have not seen one in person yet). I know that usually stage A is EDS, B MDS and C is LDS, in some cases an EDS hasn't been seen and A is EMDS, or no big changes occur and someone like Wexler has a stage A represent half of the die run.

And then with the 004, stages D onward do not have a DDO, just the reverse - which makes the whole thing a little more confusing.

[DoubleYou]

I think this one is actually correctly attributed. If you look at the EPU, you will notice that the key die scratches there match the ones on Coppercoins. Note especially the die scratch above RIB. Although the picture isn't good enough to see our favorite markers, I do believe this is the real deal. As such, I think the buyer got a very reasonable deal.

[DCW]

Reasonable deal for $1800! I'm not with you. That is a record price if memory serves. Besides aren't you explaining diagnostics for the reverse, which if I am not mistaken, was still used after the oversee with the ddo was replaced?

[liveandievarieties]

Reasonable indeed, the coin graded MS. I am the one that sold the '72 DDO 4 in March on Teletrade that you referred to earlier. It was graded AU58 and fetched $2100 plus 15% buyer's fee. The coin market is slow in the summer, but I thought $1800 was a very down to earth price for what the coin was attributed and graded as.

[DoubleYou]

That is a record price if memory serves. Besides aren't you explaining diagnostics for the reverse, which if I am not mistaken, was still used after the oversee with the ddo was replaced?

This one unmistakeably has a ddo on the obverse that can easily be told to not be the master die doubled obverse from the pictures. The best evidence for the doubling shown in the photos can be seen on the W of WE in the motto. This has the same spread as the 1DO-004 and combined with the stage A die scratches on the reverse, I'm convinced this is the real deal. I'm half convinced that it is stage A, but this is by observance of no obverse rim cuds in the picture. It may or may not display the rim cuds, as these slabs often hide them. I'm not sure if the die scratches around EPU survived into the later stages or not. The picture is too low quality (sorry Teletrade) for us to be able to see if there are any die scratches around the N of UNITED. This is a very rare die.