Error Die Clash/Break | Do die rotations coincide with die clash?

[profiler]

I probably have 50 of these with the abraded die clash remnant in bay #8. First time I've found the matching column bay clash on obverse. (Yeah, I know: It looks like the dogs had this under the house for a few months...)

Anyway, I noticed this was a rotated die, maybe 30% so I went and checked the other 50. About 20 of them are rotated 20 - 30%, as well.

Do rotated dies coincide with clash -- more often than not? Or is clash more likely to occur when dies are rotated?

Thanks in advance.

[onecent1909]

No they have nothing in common

a clash happens when a planchet does not fall into place between the dies and the dies then strike down making one die hit the other ..
the sound of the 2 dies hitting each other make a "clashing" sound... hence the name

a rotated die happen mainly when the screws that hold the dies into place loosen up and the die moves around and rotates

They MAY or MAY not happen together...

[profiler]

No they have nothing in common

a clash happens when a planchet does not fall into place between the dies and the dies then strike down making one die hit the other ..
the sound of the 2 dies hitting each other make a "clashing" sound... hence the name

a rotated die happen mainly when the screws that hold the dies into place loosen up and the die moves around and rotates

They MAY or MAY not happen together...

onecent, thank you for your prompt reply which helps me to clarify my original question: Would/could the clashing of dies "loosen things up" and then start causing a series of rotated dies until they tightened things up again?

(I'm curiously fascinated by the manufacturing process and trying to understand some of the subtle nuances that could lead to anomalies.)

Thanks again.

[jfines69]

A very good resource on coin and die production http://doubleddie.com/58201.html (This is Wexlers site)... Clashing dies can loosen the retention system... If memory serves me correct the dies for Lincolns strike at 80 tons, 12 times per second... I do believe you are correct on this being a clash... Cool looking in my opinion... Your pics are still improving NICE!!!

[profiler]

Thank you for the link, Jim. I remember reading that when I started, thinking, "Oh, who needs this?" Haha... Now I get it!

Thanks for the comments on my pics. I finally read the user manual and figured out what some of the buttons do...

[jfines69]

Thank you for the link, Jim. I remember reading that when I started, thinking, "Oh, who needs this?" Haha... Now I get it!

Thanks for the comments on my pics. I finally read the user manual and figured out what some of the buttons do...

There's a users manual???

[profiler]

There's a users manual???

lol, Jim. That's what I thought, too.

[mikediamond]

Actually, when clashed dies and a rotated die error coincide, the location of the clash marks more often than not coincide with the rotation seen on the coin itself.

[JeanK]

Thanks for posting the clash anomaly Profiler. I always wondered how that particular type of 'error' occurred.
Learning one new thing everyday helps to fill in the empty spots in my head.

JeanK

[profiler]

Actually, when clashed dies and a rotated die error coincide, the location of the clash marks more often than not coincide with the rotation seen on the coin itself.

Thanks, Mike. So you're saying while clash and rotated dies might be correlated / go hand in hand, the clash, itself, isn't a causative effect?

[profiler]

Thanks for posting the clash anomaly Profiler.

My pleasure, Jean. Everything I know about find them I learned by searching this forum for "die clash" -- and on http://www.maddieclashes.com. There are some really good examples accompanied by great explanations from the generous experts and contributors here.

[mikediamond]

Thanks, Mike. So you're saying while clash and rotated dies might be correlated / go hand in hand, the clash, itself, isn't a causative effect?

That's correct. When the position of the rotated die and the clash match, this would imply that the rotation preceded the clash.

[profiler]

Ok, cool. Thanks, Mike.

[ray_parkhurst]

If the dies are rotated, then if they clash, the clash marks are also rotated.