1991 P Small Gap Between Rim and Field

[Rowdyricster]

I know this may be trivial, but while searching through (I think it was) Error-Ref the other day for something else (I don't remember what I was searching for), I'm pretty sure I saw an image similar to the one I've posted below. It had a tiny gap between the rim and the field, but I cant remember anything about it. Can someone point me back to the right place? As I said, it may be trivial, but I'm trying to learn about the various things I find while searching. Any help would be much appreciated.

1991P.jpg1991P Obv.jpg1991P Rev.jpg

[willbrooks]

RR,
Could you provide a full coin shot of the obverse?

[makecents]

It looks like it's just from a misaligned die. Give us a full coin shot.

[willbrooks]

It looks like it's just from a misaligned die. Give us a full coin shot.

That's what I'm thinking at as well. It looks like it looking at the rim.

[Rowdyricster]

Thank you Will and Jon. It is definitely a misaligned die; however, when I searched for that again I couldn't find the image I saw the other day so I figured it might be related to something else. I may have seen it somewhere besides Error-Ref (but I can't imagine that)

1991P Obv.jpg

[VAB2013]

Hey there Rowdy! Does this gap look like you could stick something down in it? If it does, then I've seen that before and it looks like inside the gap you can see metal above where each letter is at the rim is. So with pennies there is no collar except the collar that the planchet drops down into right before it is struck right? The edge (or rim) is part of the whole piece of metal and the edge is just raised from the upsetting mill. Is all of that right?

Also on Rowdy's it looks like the rim right before you get to the G is flatter then it raises up and the field looks scrunched into it. Almost like a hit pulled the rim out of round and caused a separation where the gap is. I better go get some coffee, I feel like I'm not making sense to myself! Good morning guys!

[GrumpyEd]

Is the rev is centered?

[Rowdyricster]

Is the rev is centered?

The rev is also slightly misaligned.

1991P Rev.jpg

[Rowdyricster]

Hey there Rowdy! Does this gap look like you could stick something down in it? If it does, then I've seen that before and it looks like inside the gap you can see metal above where each letter is at the rim is. So with pennies there is no collar except the collar that the planchet drops down into right before it is struck right? The edge (or rim) is part of the whole piece of metal and the edge is just raised from the upsetting mill. Is all of that right?

Also on Rowdy's it looks like the rim right before you get to the G is flatter then it raises up and the field looks scrunched into it. Almost like a hit pulled the rim out of round and caused a separation where the gap is. I better go get some coffee, I feel like I'm not making sense to myself! Good morning guys!

I'm not sure I'm following all that. It's like the field (right above IN and extending almost to the G of GOD) just dropped off and left a gutter, but not like a ridge ring. I really don't know how to describe it. I've tried re-searching everything I could remember having searched, but I'm still not finding it again.

[VAB2013]

I'm not sure I'm following all that. It's like the field (right above IN and extending almost to the G of GOD) just dropped off and left a gutter, but not like a ridge ring. I really don't know how to describe it. I've tried re-searching everything I could remember having searched, but I'm still not finding it again.

Yes, that is exactly what I was trying to describe Rowdy.

Added: To me your reverse looks normal and the obverse looks slightly misaligned. Let's see what the guys say. I've seen this before on slightly misaligned dies where the rim looks separated (like the rim has a crack in the middle of it) like on yours where it starts at Liberty and goes up to IN. I've always wondered if that could have something to do with a stiff collar.

[Rowdyricster]

Yes, that is exactly what I was trying to describe Rowdy.

I'm glad we're on the same page if it did me take a few minutes to get there. I've searched everything I can think of that I've looked at in the last week or so and I still cant find that image. I'm beginning to think I'm just imagining things.

[VAB2013]

I'm glad we're on the same page if it did take a few minutes to get there. I've searched everything I can think of that I've looked at in the last week or so and I still cant find that image. I'm beginning to think I'm just imagining things.

Yeah I know how you feel Rowdy! Errors confuse the living daylights outta me! I added a comment to post #10 in case you haven't seen it

and to try to un-confuse things, just disregard what I was saying about "seeing letters in the gap" I think that is an entirely different thing from what you have now that I'm awake! (the disregard thing is more like a stutter strike)

[Rowdyricster]

Yes, that is exactly what I was trying to describe Rowdy.

Added: To me your reverse looks normal and the obverse looks slightly misaligned. Let's see what the guys say. I've seen this before on slightly misaligned dies where the rim looks separated (like the rim has a crack in the middle of it) like on yours where it starts at Liberty and goes up to IN. I've always wondered if that could have something to do with a stiff collar.

I did miss that last part earlier. Hmmm. Maybe I'm just seeing things, but the rim at the top over AMERICA looks to be thinner than at the bottom under ONE. Would that not indicate a misaligned die, or does it have to have the "extra rim"?

[VAB2013]

I did miss that last part earlier. Hmmm. Maybe I'm just seeing things, but the rim at the top over AMERICA looks to be thinner than at the bottom under ONE. Would that not indicate a misaligned die, or does it have to have the "extra rim"?

The guys are going to have a good laugh when they read this Rowdy because I'm trying to help you and I really don't know LOL! I always thought that slight misaligned die strikes usually show very little or no off-centeredness on the opposite face. The more misaligned the dies are, the more it will show and the obv will be in a relative location to the rev. Like the example in our Glossary where the wide and extra looking rim is at the date and on the other side (relative) the AMERICA has the rim missing.

Where I think you are seeing this on your coin is not in relative positions to each other. That is what is making me think yours is not a misaligned die but something else.

[makecents]

Sorry, didn't mean to leave you hanging, been traveling most of the day to Hatteras Island. Looks like Viv has been taking care of you though! The link Viv just gave you from the glossary, check out the pic here. (http://lincolncentforum.com/wp-conte...14/05/MAD1.jpg) Enlarge and look just west of the "O" in ONE and you can see the same trench looking area in the field, it looks to run all the way to the U.