1991 P Small Gap Between Rim and Field

[Rowdyricster]

Sorry, didn't mean to leave you hanging, been traveling most of the day to Hatteras Island. Looks like Viv has been taking care of you though! The link Viv just gave you from the glossary, check out the pic here. (http://lincolncentforum.com/wp-conte...14/05/MAD1.jpg) Enlarge and look just west of the "O" in ONE and you can see the same trench looking area in the field, it looks to run all the way to the U.

Thanks, Jon. Hope you had a good time at Hatteras Island. I looked at that pic. It's a little blurry when I enlarge, but it doesnt look like the same kind of trench to me. Maybe that coin is a later die stage, but it seems more raised at the edge of the field to me. Mine doesn't.

[makecents]

Thanks, Jon. Hope you had a good time at Hatteras Island. I looked at that pic. It's a little blurry when I enlarge, but it doesnt look like the same kind of trench to me. Maybe that coin is a later die stage, but it seems more raised at the edge of the field to me. Mine doesn't.

Just got here actually. Not sure about your coin then. Sorry I was not much help. Well, got beach toddies to drink!! Half of the folks here live near the ocean but you being landlocked like me, I figured you like a nice ocean pic. I'll get some better ones later on...

[VAB2013]

Hey Jon! Have a fun beach trip! I need to think on this one for Rowdy a bit more, I'm still a little confused

Thanks for the beach pic it looks awesome there, only thing missing is the sound of the waves hitting the shore!

[Rowdyricster]

Just got here actually. Not sure about your coin then. Sorry I was not much help. Well, got beach toddies to drink!! Half of the folks here live near the ocean but you being landlocked like me, I figured you like a nice ocean pic. I'll get some better ones later on...

Ah! That looks so calming. I need some beach time too. Thanks Jon. You are always helpful. You may be correct on this one, I dont know. I'm still looking for what I saw the other day, but no luck yet. Thanks for the pic!

[GrumpyEd]

With coins like this one, you can ask why it's the way it is but it's not extreme enough to really be a "something".
It's not perfectly aligned but to be a mad with a premium it sort of needs to be missing some design.
Lots of cents have the extra line in the rim, not sure why but mad ones often have it and so do some others but it's not abnormal to have some of that. It's all stuff that is not perfect quality but not really an error because it's all within what you'll see on normal coins, they aren't all perfect.

[Rowdyricster]

With coins like this one, you can ask why it's the way it is but it's not extreme enough to really be a "something".
It's not perfectly aligned but to be a mad with a premium it sort of needs to be missing some design.
Lots of cents have the extra line in the rim, not sure why but mad ones often have it and so do some others but it's not abnormal to have some of that. It's all stuff that is not perfect quality but not really an error because it's all within what you'll see on normal coins, they aren't all perfect.

Thank you Ed! I always appreciate your input! I knew this one was probably something minor and wouldnt have even paid any attention to it if I hadn't seen it in some of my research. I've tried and tried to find it again, to no avail. However, I did find a couple sources that say that the line in the rim (sometimes referred to as railroad tracks) is a collar die clash. Is that accurate?

[GrumpyEd]

I think that coin is not a railroad rim and the lines we see like a double or extra line along the upset part also is not a railroad rim. I think a railroad rim is where the collar does not cover the entire rim (outer edge of rim/not the upset part) so if the collar only covered part of the outer rim then the part not confined by the collar will bulge out and be a bigger diameter than a normal coin but the part that was covered will be confined and stay the normal diameter so it looks like a railroad wheel. On a reeded coin the part in the collar will have reeds and be normal diameter but the part not in the collar will bulge out and have no reeds and be bigger diameter.

Kinda like when someone has a muffin top waist, the band on their shorts (like a collar) holds it in but the part above the waistband bulges out LOL...

[Rowdyricster]

I think that coin is not a railroad rim and the lines we see like a double or extra line along the upset part also is not a railroad rim. I think a railroad rim is where the collar does not cover the entire rim (outer edge of rim/not the upset part) so if the collar only covered part of the outer rim then the part not confined by the collar will bulge out and be a bigger diameter than a normal coin but the part that was covered will be confined and stay the normal diameter so it looks like a railroad wheel. On a reeded coin the part in the collar will have reeds and be normal diameter but the part not in the collar will bulge out and have no reeds and be bigger diameter.

Kinda like when someone has a muffin top waist, the band on their shorts (like a collar) holds it in but the part above the waistband bulges out LOL...

Thank you for the follow-up! I can't say I understand all that (but I do like the analogy of a muffin top waist ). There are so many interesting things that can happen during the minting process it's difficult for me to soak it all in. I promise I'll get there. I really am striving to grasp what I'm reading and what you guys share. In the mean time I sure appreciate all your help and your patience with me.

[VAB2013]

I think "railroad rims" have been a bit misunderstood and confusing for many of us. I found this thread from a forum search and Maineman links us to this post where Coop has posted a photo (it's not one of Coop's photos but Coop posted it). Will has written in the Glossary that the "railroad rim" is not actually on the rim of the coin at all, it's on the coin's edge.

Rowdy, just don't feel discouraged - I don't think this is a hobby where anyone can ever say they have reached the "end" of knowledge

[Rowdyricster]

I think "railroad rims" have been a bit misunderstood and confusing for many of us. I found this thread from a forum search and Maineman links us to this post where Coop has posted a photo (it's not one of Coop's photos but Coop posted it). Will has written in the Glossary that the "railroad rim" is not actually on the rim of the coin at all, it's on the coin's edge.

Rowdy, just don't feel discouraged - I don't think this is a hobby where anyone can ever say they have reached the "end" of knowledge

Thank you for those links, Viv. I had actually read the link you shared by Coop. I believe there was another, too. I hadn't seen the one on this forum. Very enlightening! I liked Onecent's comments (is he still on the forum?). I wish there was a photo in the glossary, though, because I'm still a bit confused on that. But.... I actually got side tracked by mentioning railroad anyway. My focus was that stupid little gap. Every time I see a MAD now, I look for it. I'm not discouraged at all. If anything, I'm more determined! I like to be "in the know". Your encouragement, though, is very kind and much appreciated! Thank you.

[VAB2013]

Thank you for those links, Viv. I had actually read the link you shared by Coop. I believe there was another, too. I hadn't seen the one on this forum. Very enlightening! I liked Onecent's comments (is he still on the forum?). I wish there was a photo in the glossary, though, because I'm still a bit confused on that. But.... I actually got side tracked by mentioning railroad anyway. My focus was that stupid little gap. Every time I see a MAD now, I look for it. I'm not discouraged at all. If anything, I'm more determined! I like to be "in the know". Your encouragement, though, is very kind and much appreciated! Thank you.

You're welcome Rowdy! Yeah in our Glossary for "Partial Collar Strike... aka Railroad Rim" it says photo pending. I guess these are not found very often.

Onecent1909 is here off and on, I wish he was here more often because he's a great guy and very knowledgeable! Even if he's busy with other things, I can assure you that no Lincoln gets past his hand without a thorough look over!

[GrumpyEd]

I was going to post a link to google images but there is so much other stuff posted there it might not help.

For the most part, the ones on the outer rim with one section bigger diam (and missing reeding on reeded coins) are railroad rims/partial collar strikes.

The ones with the extra line on the upset part of the rim (not outer part of rim) are collar clash.


There are tons of ex encased coins where people think they are railroad rims, cents removed from those lucky coin holders can look similar, even get bigger diameter from being crushed.

[mikediamond]

It looks to be a very minor die attrition error. This occurs when the edge of the die is worn away from repeated collisions with the beveled entrance of the collar.

[Rowdyricster]

It looks to be a very minor die attrition error. This occurs when the edge of the die is worn away from repeated collisions with the beveled entrance of the collar.

Thank you for your help. I really appreciate it. That's where I saw the photo I referenced earlier in this thread. Apparently I was reading about die attrition and clicked a link to peripheral die damage and, boom, there it is...third pic down. Thanks again, Mike.

[jfines69]

Now we know what it is... Good eye... Thanks Mike!!!