It's So Hard To Tell

[Guest]

The Following:

• 1995 D DD?
• 1991 D DD1
• 1970 S MD

I can never really tell besides a 69 S that it's machine doubling. Sometimes I feel a picture can say a thousand words, but at the same time pictures can be deceiving. The 1970 seems to have the same attributes as the 91. Have I missed something on how a beginner can learn the difference when the MD looks like DD?

[RWBILLER]

Ms bs ddo - my daughter got me on this. A few months ago she found a nice au 1909-vdb. Actually finding a 09 in that condition is not all that rare as most people cash in there sock draw pennies which sometimes has a nice 09-vdb. Anyway I looked at it and I thought it had machine doubling on date. She looked it up and it was a ddo. I was confused because I always thought the ms was flat like the 09. I'm still confused! In fact - I am always confused!!!! Ha ha

[copperlover]

Chris each coin can have two possible doubling - ddo OR DDR and usually I have to look several times until I can confirm something
like a marker or notching , liberty , IGWT and Initials etc. It is hard to confirm. If you could give more pics of these that would help for a speedy confirmation of MD or real doubling. Thanks for sharing.

Lucien

[jfines69]

IMHO and INP (I'm No Pro) but all except the last pic look like DD!!!

[lara4228]

"Have I missed something on how a beginner can learn the difference when the MD looks like DD"

That is the problem! You don't want to miss anything

Seriously though, I feel the same way. I think just time, practice and a lot looking, listening and absorbing of pictures.

Even though I don't wouldn't know one from another confidently, I would have to agree with Jim. Lets see if we are right?

[jcuve]

Look for notched corners - something MD will not have yet most examples of hub doubling do have. The pictures posted show machine doubling, they are nice pictures, and show the flat, shelf like doubling that cuts into the size of the normal design. Keep searching and have fun!

[jfines69]

cuts into the size of the normal design.!

This is the part that always throws me... I just don't understand the normal design enough to make a good observation... With DDD and MD and grease filled dies it is difficult to really tell what is normal... Anything other than the first coin off the strike is abnormal... LOL... Unless the dies are doubled... LOL!!!

[jcuve]

The 1st pic of TR, shows perfectly what I mean by cutting into the normal design...

[copperlover]

I am trying my best to find the 1972P DDO-004 and the main marker is the die chips on the rim near liberty and I have to look for East to west die scratches on the IN and hub doubling on LIBERTY. There are more markers to look at but the idea is to be able to mathch all of these and confirm them. It is not as easy as it appears. With some luck you could find what you are looking for. I also started using pictures from other sites.

Lucien

[coinman2009]

That's a toughy! the #4 W/ the rim cud's, found a few simialar rim cuds but no doubling! Good Luck!

[copperlover]

I have about 100 1972 coins to look through so I'm lucky if I find THE OO4 . IT is always good to share what you go through as you go after the bigger finds. Good luck to everyone and to you CHRIS.


Lucien

[jfines69]

The 1st pic of TR, shows perfectly what I mean by cutting into the normal design...

I am looking at the bottom of the vertical bars... What I see there looks to have a seperation line along with notches... It does not appear to me to be flat and shelf like... One day I will get this figured out... Thanks for the input Jason... I appreciate it!!!

[DoubleYou]

When it comes to the 1972 DDO-004, I would always make sure to look for the key die scratches at the N of UNITED on the reverse. There have been non-doubled die obverses paired with this obverse, which have been deemed collectable.

[copperlover]

Thanks for that tip WC, I will use that going forward.

Lucien

[hasfam]

When it comes to the 1972 DDO-004, I would always make sure to look for the key die scratches at the N of UNITED on the reverse. There have been non-doubled die obverses paired with this obverse, which have been deemed collectable.

I always check the reverse on every 1972 just for that reason.

Another thing wanted to bring to the conversation is regarding MD or mechanical doubling in that it is a kind of a generic term for when some part of the machinery is loose and chatters or moves in a way that it's not supposed to during the strike process, creating different effects on the coin. There are different anomolies that fall under the umbrella of machine doubling, like. Discover them. Have photos of them. Find samples and refer back to them. After searching thousands of coins and running into the different types of MD, you'll spot them fast and easy....most of the time.