Can a weak "O"be used as die marker on the rev???

[WaterSport]

Or is it a pressure/strike issue during minting which can vary from coin to coin being minted from the same die????

WS

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[coinman2009]

Pretty sure, It's a pressure, or lack there of making these,not too sure you could use them as die markers.

[jfines69]

Even though it is fairly obvious what caused the weak "O" there is a possibility that it may have been weak due to a strike through... This would make the actual appearance of the "O" change to much to be used as a marker... This is only my opinion... I am no pro though!!!

[hasfam]

A die marker would be something that is already on the die and would transfer to the planchet with each strike, ie; a crack, gouge, dent, chip. Markers do not occur during the strike or after the strike or if anything such as grease gets in between the dies striking because it has nothing to do with the die itself. So anything to do with the strike itself would not have a bearing on the markers. Those are already on the die.

[jfines69]

A die marker would be something that is already on the die and would transfer to the planchet with each strike, ie; a crack, gouge, dent, chip. Markers do not occur during the strike or after the strike or if anything such as grease gets in between the dies striking because it has nothing to do with the die itself. So anything to do with the strike itself would not have a bearing on the markers. Those are already on the die.

Yea... That's what I meant to say... LOL... Rock explained this very well... Thanks!!!

[trails]

Let us back up a bit. Some die markers do occur during the striking of coins. Die clashes, and die scrapes are two that come to mind. Also, die dents left by "struck through a foreign object" are also to be considered.

You cannot use the term "permanent damage to the die" for we know that both die gouges and die scratches can dissipate from the die's face due to the striking of coins.

What we can say is that a die markers are any deformity on the facial structure of the die that is transferred to the surface of the coin being struck. This would discount grease filled (which is above the surface of the die) strike.

BJ Neff

[hasfam]

So, and please correct me if I'm wrong, technically all deformities on the surface of the die are in fact a result of the die being struck. The more the strikes, the more impact on the surface creating unique markers. As the die state advances with age due to numerous strikes the stage of the die might also change creating new die markers, which again would be in a sense a direct result of the die being struck over and over again. On the other hand, anomolies showing on the surface of a coin which is due to a single strike but does not change the surface of the die is discounted as a valid die marker; ie struck thru grease.
I could elaborate on this in greater detail, but I just wanted to be sure my understanding of this general principle was correct.
I appreciate any further clarification if neccessary.

[hemisboats]

So, and please correct me if I'm wrong, technically all deformities on the surface of the die are in fact a result of the die being struck. The more the strikes, the more impact on the surface creating unique markers. As the die state advances with age due to numerous strikes the stage of the die might also change creating new die markers, which again would be in a sense a direct result of the die being struck over and over again. On the other hand, anomolies showing on the surface of a coin which is due to a single strike but does not change the surface of the die is discounted as a valid die marker; ie struck thru grease.
I could elaborate on this in greater detail, but I just wanted to be sure my understanding of this general principle was correct.
I appreciate any further clarification if neccessary.

I must agree. I'm currently putting together 5 Lincolns 1973 that show a progressive die marker as stampings went on. It will be posted in about 7 days unless my new camera comes early.

Neal

[WaterSport]

Thanks to everyone, I think The discussion is spot on.

WS

[trails]

Not all deformities occur during the striking of coins. While most die anomalies do occur during the striking period, there are a very few that form during the tempering of the die and before the die is put into service. Various dings, dents, scratches (we are all familiar with lathe lines and they can be used as a die marker) can occur before the die strikes even the first coin.

Can we prove that a die anomaly happened before the first strike? No, not really. So we lump them all together under the heading of happening during the striking of coins.

BJ Neff

[jfines69]

Lathe lines do happen before the first striking... But these are rare... Now with respect to strike through grease (STG)... I had posted coins before that were determined to be STGs'... The anomoly started in the field areas and went to the rim... Am I missing something here... Please be straight forward with me!!!

[liveandievarieties]

And to tie it all up together, you can have die markers on an EDS example that won't be present in later die states. Just as you can have MDS and LDS die markers. Small polish lines, dents and gouges get eroded as well as polished off. A die marker isn't a permanent marker, just a conclusive one, if already documented. Please say if I'm incorrect- I learn a lot more when I'm wrong anyway!

[trails]

And to tie it all up together, you can have die markers on an EDS example that won't be present in later die states. Just as you can have MDS and LDS die markers. Small polish lines, dents and gouges get eroded as well as polished off. A die marker isn't a permanent marker, just a conclusive one, if already documented. Please say if I'm incorrect- I learn a lot more when I'm wrong anyway!

You are correct - die markers are an ever changing anomaly on the die's face and sub-structure. Some stay static, others grow and others diminish. The one thing to remember is that it is on the die's face and the sub-structure of the die and not attached to the die (sic; grease)

BJ Neff