What kind of error is this ?? 2011P

[tea-party]

Here's a 2011 I came across a while back and discounted it as a form of die fatigue.

Billy

Im wondering what might make my coin any different ?? Im wondering do EDS helps understand this kind of error better??..

John

[dvn]

Im wondering what might make my coin any different ?? Im wondering do EDS helps understand this kind of error better??..

John

Die state would have a direct bearing. I have seen this die fatigue or worn dies, depending on the phraseology one likes to use, on a lot of the 2010 and 2011 coinage since the mint is getting as much production value from their working dies. I can see the extreme metal flow lines in your OP image which gives the coin what some call the "orange-peel" effect when one rotates the coin under light giving a sparkling cartwheel flash. We also see this same type of phenomenon on many of the middle 80's cents particularly on 86 thru 88 which we see the same effect and are from overuse of dies.

Anyway, that's what I'm seeing on your coin.

Billy

[DoubleYou]

I've looked at this longer and I think that Billy has it right. The Design Extension Dimples dig into the coin, like pits. The die fatigue we see here raises the fields around the letters.

[trails]

This may very well be die fatigue, but we must look at what has caused it. Is it metal flow? If that is the cause, then what forces have caused the die to become eroded in those specific areas?

Die deterioration from metal flow is not a random condition, there are specific conditions that cause the die to erode in certain spots and not others. The outward flow of metal changing from a low pressure area to a high pressure area during the striking of the planchet is one condition that will cause die deterioration. That was what caused the 1955 poor-man's doubled die. The metal flow into the last 5 digit on that die was an area of low pressure. As the metal moved out of the incused area of the five digit, it met a area of high resistance (the field) and that increased pressure started stripping away atoms from the die's surface just after the five digit's boundaries. Each strike stripped away more atoms until a visual indent was formed in the die, giving it the appearance of doubling.

In this case, I do not see any conditions that would cause areas of low pressure to high pressure area that would strip away the atoms from that given die. We must also take into consideration that metal flow is essentially equal in all directions. Is there any indications of these bars near the words UNITED STATES? If not, then why would the deterioration happen in just this one area?

I presume that the pictures provided are all from the same die. If they are, are the coins presented all near the same die state? And if so, what is that die state?

I do see the resemblance to the die deterioration encountered from the 1980's Lincoln cents and it maybe one and the same thing. It is hard to say without a coin with this defect not in hand.

As to it resembling dimples; dimples are a raised area on the die that are orientated towards the center. The only connection between this anomaly and dimples is that they are both radial in pattern.

BJ Neff

[dvn]

This may very well be die fatigue, but we must look at what has caused it. Is it metal flow? If that is the cause, then what forces have caused the die to become eroded in those specific areas?

Die deterioration from metal flow is not a random condition, there are specific conditions that cause the die to erode in certain spots and not others. The outward flow of metal changing from a low pressure area to a high pressure area during the striking of the planchet is one condition that will cause die deterioration. That was what caused the 1955 poor-man's doubled die. The metal flow into the last 5 digit on that die was an area of low pressure. As the metal moved out of the incused area of the five digit, it met a area of high resistance (the field) and that increased pressure started stripping away atoms from the die's surface just after the five digit's boundaries. Each strike stripped away more atoms until a visual indent was formed in the die, giving it the appearance of doubling.

In this case, I do not see any conditions that would cause areas of low pressure to high pressure area that would strip away the atoms from that given die. We must also take into consideration that metal flow is essentially equal in all directions. Is there any indications of these bars near the words UNITED STATES? If not, then why would the deterioration happen in just this one area?

I presume that the pictures provided are all from the same die. If they are, are the coins presented all near the same die state? And if so, what is that die state?

I do see the resemblance to the die deterioration encountered from the 1980's Lincoln cents and it maybe one and the same thing. It is hard to say without a coin with this defect not in hand.

As to it resembling dimples; dimples are a raised area on the die that are orientated towards the center. The only connection between this anomaly and dimples is that they are both radial in pattern.

BJ Neff

BJ, pull a few 2011 cents and you should be able to come across one fairly quick. While searching last night from circulated rolls I came across a few more of them.

Billy

[mikediamond]

I have not seen this before, but like Billy, I suspect this is an unusual form of premature die deterioration. The raised areas (or what appear to be raised areas) are perfectly placed between the letters. What intrigues me is how sharp the perturbations of the field are and how this appears to be a relatively early die state. Die deterioration takes on many unsual forms, and this probably expands the known range of forms. I look forward to BJ's analysis. -- Mike Diamond

[georoxx]

Billy's coin and that which was posted by the OP are from the same die. (Line under the C of America.) Or perhaps they are just strangly similar as the line DOES go in a slightly different direction. Coincidence..? Angle of the pics..?

-George