Is this a grease-filled die?

[cents1st]

I spent some time on the D-Mint floor and most of the workers there think collectors are idiots to believe the lubricant causes strike problems. Hardened dies, coin blanks and grease...grease--if on a die, by accident---has no effect....to have an effect on the coin that was struck the grease would need to be harder than the planchet & the 1000 + degree die....there are many other reasons for these type of imperfections...a lubricant is not one of them. Most of the 'small area' missing details are planchet imperfections, and die wear.

[mustbebob]

OK then. We are all idiots. Pretty ballsy to even say that the workers think all the collectors are idiots...don't you think? Please be aware that the mint workers at the Philly mint don't share their counterpart's perspective on this. I went on two tours of the mint in Philadelphia, and this was brought up specifically. Since you are the expert in this area, could I please have your professional opinion on what caused the following on these two coins?

[mustbebob]

Bruce, I am not quite finished with this topic either. As well as convincing all of the 'Experts" out there that their terminology has been wrong all this time, the idiots out there include the Third Party Grading Services. ANACS doesn't seem to agree with your statement either. Take a look at this one...
We are ready to change our tune whenever you can provide proof that we are all wrong.

[Maineman750]

This reminds me of the post I made on trolls a while back...and I have already asked cents1st what caused some similar errors and of course there was no reply....planchet imperfection is pretty funny after mentioning all that pressure

[cimperialis]

Can I ask what is "grease," specifically? If you look at typical equipment grease, such as this- http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/gptr1.aspx, the dropping point for these materials, which is the point at which the grease completely turns to liquid, is 500 ºF. If the die really does reach 1000 ºF, the grease would certainly be liquid.

However, what if the grease stayed in the die due to chemical adhesion of the die and the grease? The grease would stay in the die, and when the coin was struck, the grease might be trapped in the die due to the immense forces blocking an escape route. Thus, a blank area on the coin is present. If this were the case, I would then argue that even water could cause the effects of a grease-filled die.

[mustbebob]

I think you hit the mail on the head Sean. Whenever anything gets between two solid areas, and it has no where to go the pressures would make it migrate to the areas of least resistance. In this case, it would be the incuse devices of the die. Whether it is grease, a combination of dirt, gunk or anything else, there is no escape for it during the striking process. The dies strike the coins, while the collar keeps the coin contained in the striking chamber. Therefore, it would most definitely leave some indication of its presence on the struck coin. To assume that the supposed 1000 degree temps and instant evaporation would prohibit this from happening is just not good science.
From my tour of the Philly Mint, I saw the grease used on the machinery. It is incredibly thick, and it can and does occasionally get into the striking chamber.
My purpose of pursuing this is that Bruce is giving inaccurate information. This is strictly his opinion, and to say the mint workers call collectors idiots for thinking this is just plain wrong. My discussions with mint workers on two occasions dispute the claim that this can't happen. In addition, all anyone needs to do is put 'struck through grease error' in a search engine, and there, in black and white, i the description as given by every major coin company, TPGs, and individual experts. To assume all of these folks don't know what they are talking about, and are all idiots, is both disheartening and a poor choice of words. This is one area where I will hope try to persuade a relatively new member of this forum to keep from making responses like this. They hurt the hobby, and the information database we are trying to assemble here.
He has the opportunity to address the issues like any good debate. Whether he does so or not, is still up for grabs at this time.

[rlm's cents]

I think you hit the mail on the head Sean. Whenever anything gets between two solid areas, and it has no where to go the pressures would make it migrate to the areas of least resistance. In this case, it would be the incuse devices of the die. Whether it is grease, a combination of dirt, gunk or anything else, there is no escape for it during the striking process. The dies strike the coins, while the collar keeps the coin contained in the striking chamber. Therefore, it would most definitely leave some indication of its presence on the struck coin. To assume that the supposed 1000 degree temps and instant evaporation would prohibit this from happening is just not good science.
From my tour of the Philly Mint, I saw the grease used on the machinery. It is incredibly thick, and it can and does occasionally get into the striking chamber.
My purpose of pursuing this is that Bruce is giving inaccurate information. This is strictly his opinion, and to say the mint workers call collectors idiots for thinking this is just plain wrong. My discussions with mint workers on two occasions dispute the claim that this can't happen. In addition, all anyone needs to do is put 'struck through grease error' in a search engine, and there, in black and white, i the description as given by every major coin company, TPGs, and individual experts. To assume all of these folks don't know what they are talking about, and are all idiots, is both disheartening and a poor choice of words. This is one area where I will hope try to persuade a relatively new member of this forum to keep from making responses like this. They hurt the hobby, and the information database we are trying to assemble here.
He has the opportunity to address the issues like any good debate. Whether he does so or not, is still up for grabs at this time.

I assume that you are directing that comment toward me. Until Mr. diamond retracts his comment, I will stick with them.

BTW, when grease is heated, it does not evaporate. Grease that thick decomposes to all sorts of materials high in carbon. Carbon is easily capable of withstanding 1,000°.

[Maineman750]

rlm....the comments are directed at cents1st..not you.

[rlm's cents]

rlm....the comments are directed at cents1st..not you.

OK! Sorry!