1945s-ddo-001? Eds?

[SuddenAdoration]

I am not sure if this is a DDO or not, it is thick in the date, motto & Liberty just like the #1 on cc, I used photoshop layers and the date matches perfectly, however the mint mark position doesn't match for the MDS or LDS, and there are no matching die markers that I can see.
So I was thinking either EDS DDO or just a normal cent with PMD...

What do you think? Thanks!

[Chugly]

Sorry, but I see nothing but circulation wear giving the appearance of extra thickness. This is a major problem with many of the well circulated wheat cents I search.

Just as a note of education... Once the mint mark is placed on a die, it remains in the same position for the entire life of that die. There will be no changes in placement between the first coin struck and the time the die is retired. The only exception to this that I can think of would be if a major die break or retained cud occurred which encircled the mint mark causing a shift in its position.

If the mint mark placement doesn't match, it cannot be the die you are comparing it to no matter what. Hope that helps!

[RWBILLER]

Hi
I agree 100%, with Chugly. He has pointed out to me to always compare the location of a mint marks position with a reference book or a example coin.
Rog

[SuddenAdoration]

Thanks for the clarification on the mm position. I have been going through a lot of old wheats this week and it is so difficult, due to the circulation wear to tell if any of them might have any doubling or not. BU coins are much easier

one question though... I undersatnd that my coin is not the #1. But the #1 MDS shows circulation wear too. how am I able to tell the difference if the thickness matches in all areas of the date? Even in the parts that are not worn... Do you have any tips for me? (besides die markers)
thanks! I hope my question makes sense..

[RWBILLER]

Hi
That's a real good question. Some of the die markers - even on worn coins are still there. But there have been times when I was convinced that a coin was a rpm or ddo, etc. Sounds like the easy way out but I send it to Bob.
Maybe if I had a scope I could do more analyzing.
Good question.
Rog

[mustbebob]

Class 6 extra thickness and circulation type extra thickness is pretty different Karah. What we look for in circulated examples is the distention/distortion normally associated with Class 6 doubled dies. On the obverse, that is normally a wider tail of the 9 in the date, 'tootsie roll' twisting of the IBER of LIBERTY, and normally a ski-ramp type lower bar of the E in WE. On the reverse of wheaties, we normally see elongation of the dots, a wider lower bar of the E and L in the motto, and wider outside wheat lines. If you look closely at some of the many class 6 doubled dies on the site, you can see what I mean. Excessive circulation wear can, and does hide a lot of these diagnostics, but I believe once you get the hang of it, it will be pretty easy to identify these.

[coop]

The die states denote the condition of a die during it's life. EDS is when the die is fresh. The nicest strikes will happen during it life. Just like us, out best years are usually the first years of our life. MDS is a time comparable to our 20-30's. The die is still nice, but some events have happened that affect the die for some time. Clashes, cracks little die flow present in the fields. Another desirable die state and coins are more desirable than the next step. LDS is like the 40-50's of our lives. The wrinkles and aging is starting to show. Heaver die flow is sstting in. A few die cracks/chips starting to develope. The clashes are showing more die abrasion. The intrest is starting to wain in these examples as compared to the other two die states. VLDS is the 60-80's of our life. The coin look pretty haggard compared with the ealier die states. Die flow... what an understatement! Breaks, heavy die flow, and continued die wear makes these coins as undesirable as these years in our lives. The die states refer to the way the coins were made and not the condition of the circulation of coins. You can have all grades of coins in all die states in BU and on down in grading. But a coin is able to be noticed by the dies age in every grade of coin if you know what to look for.

[jcuve]

Nice analogy Coop...

[SuddenAdoration]

Bob & Coop THANK YOU!!! Times 1000! You both are so helpful and I can't tell you how much I appreciate all the help you two provide. Your answers will definitely help me going forward in my search and a better understanding of die states ...

[coop]

Bob & Coop THANK YOU!!! Times 1000! You both are so helpful and I can't tell you how much I appreciate all the help you two provide. Your answers will definitely help me going forward in my search and a better understanding of die states ...

Well one more. The die states can been seen as to wear on the outer devices near the rim. The MDS examples start to show a little roundness next to tim. The LDS examples show more wear in the same areas, but the VLDS examples really show heavy die flow lines from the outer devices to the rim.

[SuddenAdoration]

wow Coop thanks!
those are great educational photographs... especially the one showing "America". I never understood why some looked so strange at the top of the letters...
For the other picture, It looks like the word Liberty is getting thicker as the die ages? Is that what you mean by lighter to medium to heavy die flow?