brockage question.

[willbrooks]

Please clear up my confusion. According to wikipedia (which I know is often inaccurate) the definition of a brockage is: "a type of error coin in which one side of the coin has both the normal image and a mirror image of the opposite side impressed upon it." This is just flat out wrong isn't it? Perhaps I am not understanding correctly what happens, but if a planchet is struck by a capped die, wouldn't the exposed side just have the mirror image of the opposite side on it and not BOTH the "normal image and a mirror image of the opposite side," as wikipedia says? With all of the "squeeze job" coins posted lately, I was assuming that a strong indicator of a squeeze job vs. a brockage is the presence of both images. I assume through a SERIES of striking problems a brockage could end up with both images, but I would think that would be an exception. Can someone help me out with the details here? A second question is wouldn't a true brockage have rotational alignment with the front and back images and not be askew? Thanks for any help.

[hasfam]

From CONECA
"Brockage errors are the result of a planchet and a normally struck coin being in the coining chamber at the same time. The two items may overlap each other, rest on top of each other, or be of different sizes. There is one exception - the “brockage second strike” - which is the result of a planchet and a brockage coin being in the coining chamber together. When a coin sticks to the upper or lower die a number of brockage strikes may occur from the same coin (which at this stage is known as a "die cap"). The first strike from the "capped die" will result in a "mirror brockage" that will exhibit a perfect incuse mirror image of the design. As the cap continues to strike coins it will distort and spread outward wrapping itself around the shank of the die looking very much like a soda bottle cap or in later stages like a thimble. This will result in the designs of the coin closest to the rim eventually no longer appearing on the brockage strikes that result from the distorted cap"

[willbrooks]

From CONECA
"Brockage errors are the result of a planchet and a normally struck coin being in the coining chamber at the same time. The two items may overlap each other, rest on top of each other, or be of different sizes. There is one exception - the “brockage second strike” - which is the result of a planchet and a brockage coin being in the coining chamber together. When a coin sticks to the upper or lower die a number of brockage strikes may occur from the same coin (which at this stage is known as a "die cap"). The first strike from the "capped die" will result in a "mirror brockage" that will exhibit a perfect incuse mirror image of the design. As the cap continues to strike coins it will distort and spread outward wrapping itself around the shank of the die looking very much like a soda bottle cap or in later stages like a thimble. This will result in the designs of the coin closest to the rim eventually no longer appearing on the brockage strikes that result from the distorted cap"

Thank you. Yes, I already understand all of that. Maybe I need to rephrase what I am asking. First, is wikipedia's definition as posted above innaccurate? Also, should the front and back images on a brockage (a full brockage anyhow) be rotationally aligned and not askew with each other? Thanks again. I hope what I am asking isn't too vague. I am not positive I am using all of the correct terminology.

[hasfam]

You probably are asking the question correctly, but it would best be left to Mike Diamond or another error expert to answer it. I'm sorry I couldn't be more help to you.

[willbrooks]

Please, no sorries at all. I am very appreciative. The fact that I am even asking this question shows how much you guys have taught me since I joined. 6 months ago I thought a brockage was caused by a lack of fiber in my diet.

[jcuve]

The Wikipedia definition is inaccurate (a lot of their numismatic definitions are messed up). While most brockage errors that are found are partial brockages, where part of the design is seen and then the brockage error is off-center (so you see both), a full brockage will have the entire face of the previously struck coin on it without any of the design being struck from the obscured die.

[coop]

Want to see some? The last to are die caps, but the bottom of the coin shows how it strike through a cap brockage.

[simonm]

If I could choose any of those coins, I think it would be tough between the mercury dime and the last deep cap cent. They both look so cool...maybe I'll get myself one for my birthday
Great pics Coop!

[coop]

The Merc sold on Heritage a while back (Not my coin) for $5,000+. I don't remember the dollar exactly, but in that ball park.

I left out my favorite die cap:

[simonm]

Useful for catching the drool when you look at that coin...

[willbrooks]

Thanks for the photos Coop. Very nice. Believe it or not, I googled and looked at tons of images and read several explanations of it before I posted. I realize this is not standard procedure, lol. Anyway, I am really glad you posted the 2nd picture. I saw several like that in my search. On that it DOES show both an obverse and reverse and mirror reverse image overlapped, whereas typically there is just the mirror image. There has to be more going on there than a simple brockage strike. Can you explain how that happens? Thanks guys. You're the best.

p.s. Those die cap photos are crazy! You could drink whisky shots out of 'em.

[liveandievarieties]

I agree with Simon, that merc. brockage is absolutely amazing. If I had the funds I'd happily pony up $5K for it.

Coop- Did it sell as a mated pair as pictured? Do you have a link to that coin? It's absolutely phenomenal.

[coop]

I agree with Simon, that merc. brockage is absolutely amazing. If I had the funds I'd happily pony up $5K for it.

Coop- Did it sell as a mated pair as pictured? Do you have a link to that coin? It's absolutely phenomenal.

No, I don't have the coin. I collect images to show what could be out there.
Whick mated pair? They are all single coins. The one with 4 images is all of the same single coin.

[liveandievarieties]

Coop- I'm well aware that you collect pictures, not expensive coins, I wasn't suggesting that you owned it. I was asking if you had a link to the Heritage sale. I realize now that it's photos of the obverse and reverse of the same coin, at first it looked as though it was the brockage and the coin it was struck against (mated pair).