1860 Indian Head Penny (Transitional Type 1 ?)

[Guest]

First let me start by saying that this coin is old, worn and clearly an 1860... And its not a Lincoln!

What I am wondering is if it is the transitional variety using the 1859 type bust...

I've included a close up but it may not be clear enough to judge... If anyone knows for certain another way to attribute this type other than the pointed bust, I would be appreciative.

Thx

Greg

[flyhi3]

First let me start by saying that this coin is old, worn and clearly an 1860... And its not a Lincoln!

I would rather have an old worn 1860 Indian then an old worn 1960 Lincoln.... As for the error, I didn't know of this error, so thanks, I am going to watch this thread and hope to learn something!

Alex

[strwrght53]

It's hard to tell I'm looking at a picture of both side bye side,has your coin taken a hit on the point there looks to be a flat area below the point ,if that's the case I don't think its the transitional imho

[papascoins]

Wish I knew......

I wish I knew more about attributing them too. The only info I could find quickly is printed below.
I too have an 1860 to identify, but it is a little nicer than your coin. I need to get some pics and figure out my own 1860 as well!

This from 'Goldberg Auction House':


**Until the early 1990's this is considered a very rare variety, and was listed in Breen's Encyclopedia as such. The reality is, however that this is really a separate entry into the regular date set of Indian Cents. It is as dramatic and different a design as the 1864 With L is from the 1864 No L type. Starting in 1994, this type was included in the "Guide book of United States Coins" - The Red Book. Since then collectors have started including this coin in their sets, many of which were previously thought to be complete.

The "Pointed Bust" style refers to the narrower bust truncation as used in 1859. One may label this as the "type of 1859". The redesign to the broad bust point in 1860 seems to have come early in the year. Perhaps the 6 known obverse dies that struck the 1860 pointed busts were undated dies leftover from 1859. In any event the coin was struck in large enough quantities to satisfy most collectors demand, but a small enough quantity to make it one of the key dates of the series. The estimated original mintage is about 1/2 million to 1 million pieces, making it about between 20 to 40 times rarer than the broad bust point pieces.**

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Also:

**Rick Snow writes in his "Flying Eagle and Indian Cent Attribution Guide, Vol. 2, 1859-1869" That the 1860 pointed bust design is found on no less than seven different dies. These are the same portrait design as used only on 1859. Snow postulates that the Mint had on hand these seven undated dies at the end of 1859. These where then dated with the new years date and put into service. But why did the Mint change the design to the rounded bust after that? It is possible that for some reason the pointed bust master die somehow rendered unusable to make new hubs, so the Mint had to go back to the 1858 pattern design with the rounded bust point and use that master die to create its hubs for the new 1860 dies.**

A few Pics:

[amosamos16]

It's not way to worn to say. And I never herd of any other way to attribute it, other then the bust.

[stonecad]

My overlay really seems to match the shape of the bust 1859 pointed bust style although the motto and date do not line up exactly in relation to he bust... AM I correct in that the bust was placed in a separate operation to the motto/date... thus allowing for the 1873 coin that had only the bust doubled?