1909 VDB Proof?

**georoxx** · 09-14-2013, 07:11 PM

Can't answer your question, but that sure is a nice coin.

-George

**liveandievarieties** · 09-14-2013, 08:04 PM

I don't think so, as the rims are rounded. I've been lucky enough to get to hold a good handful of Matte Lincolns (Research for being able to cherrypick them!). On a Matte Proof Lincoln (1909-16 and 17 if you believe Breen) you'll see a very sharp, squared rim, not too different than a proof from the 50s.

According to the book Lincoln Cent Matte Proofs by Kevin Flynn- "a single set of working dies is believed to have struck all specimens"

Oh my gawd- you might have something... Book also states that there is a die scratch from the back of Lincoln's jacket into the field below T of LIBERTY. In front of the nose should also have die scratches.

The luster does look like it could on a Matte, the strike is excellent also. I couldn't say with confidence without having it in hand, but your specimen is all of a sudden quite promising looking.

Tell me you don't know what a VDB Proof is worth....

(Don't get your hopes up yet, it just looks promising.)

**admrose** · 09-14-2013, 08:26 PM

Remove the capsule lid and rephotograph as it is distorting the details and fields.

**johnthereseller** · 09-14-2013, 08:36 PM

As to its worth yes I know what the values could be, The old guy 70+yo at my little coin shop I go to said it could be because of what you mentioned and that there is some polish to the rim itself also. I am not trying to determine a value though as this is a family item. This is a very beautiful coin in the (PROTECTED) hand. When I got it it was in a very old shinny paper envelope that was barely surviving. I also got a 1895 french horn and yes I know thats not a coin lol but its cool and one of 2 known.

**amosamos16** · 09-14-2013, 08:36 PM

Also their supposed to be a creasing shape on the reverse after unum. I can't tell if its there or not.

**liveandievarieties** · 09-14-2013, 09:07 PM

I think it was actually Chuck who told me- nearly all Matte Proof Lincolns went through the same coin dealer who placed every one of them in little paper envelopes when he sold them individually...

Just because I'm curious, do you still have the paper envelope? Has nothing to do with verifying authenticity, it'd just be really neat to see, that's how most coins used to be stored by coin dealers before the plastic age.

**admrose** · 09-14-2013, 09:16 PM

I personally would love to own a matte proof. They're what all Lincoln's should have looked like.

**johnthereseller** · 09-14-2013, 09:50 PM

here is another photo as requested. I included a photo of the rim and full view of my high grade VDB that is not a proof. There is a definite difference in the rims the coin in question is much more squared off.

Attached Files

**admrose** · 09-14-2013, 09:58 PM

I differ any opinions to someone with more experience with these.

**johnthereseller** · 09-14-2013, 10:36 PM

No the paper basically disintegrated. The paper is said to be one of the things that aided to the toning of the coins I have read some other diagnostics and the top of the rim is flat with out the matting and the inside lip will be sharp if it is not PCGS will reject it and some rounding is expected on the outside of the rim due to circulation etc... The dealer did say he would make me an offer if I wanted to hear it but I said no because of it's family history. I have been looking at the PCGS diag and Heritage also. It is fun to me to learn like this and to get opinions. The other 1909 VDB that I included is very nice also and got that one in a trade. I know it's not a penny but I did find a 2005 5c hobbled bison today. I love our coins!!!

**liveandievarieties** · 09-14-2013, 10:47 PM

You're a lot of fun John. I can't ever be certain of anything by digital photo alone, but you've got a very nice coin to say the least. If it were in my hands, I'd likely ship it off to PCGS, post haste!

**johnthereseller** · 09-14-2013, 10:58 PM

Would PCGS be better or NGC as all I really care about is getting it certified. Yes I know grade is important for investment purposes but I somtimes think the numbers become more important than the coin. I like having fun I have a different outlook on life now that at 41yo I had open heart surgery. I have a aortic valve made from the lining of a cows heart now and a sythetic aortic artery. So I ask if I eat a steak does that make me a cannibal? LOL hahaha

**GrumpyEd** · 09-14-2013, 11:16 PM

That is nice.
I'd send it in, not much to lose by giving it a shot.
If you only care to get it certified I guess NGC would be ok if it's easier for you but my pref would be PCGS.