1958D Whats Going on with the Bow Tie?

[Rowdyricster]

Came across this one today. Could this be a struck-through something causing the "gutter" through the bow tie? I thought at first someone may have scraped it out or that it was some kind of damage, but the inside of the gutter appears to be smooth, and I see no displaced metal. Any thoughts?

1958D Closeup.jpg1958D.jpg1958D OBV.jpg1958D REV.jpg

[VAB2013]

These are tough Rowdy! I don't know how the pros tell? It could be struck through a foreign object like a piece of metal or something. Let's call on the guys!

[Rowdyricster]

These are tough Rowdy! I don't know how the pros tell? It could be struck through a foreign object like a piece of metal or something. Let's call on the guys!

A lot of the things I see are tough for me. I'm still trying to identify a few RPM's.

[VAB2013]

A lot of the things I see are tough for me. I'm still trying to identify a few RPM's.

To me errors are the hardest! That's cool you have some more RPM's you're working on! Are they from the can also?

[Rowdyricster]

To me errors are the hardest! That's cool you have some more RPM's you're working on! Are they from the can also?

Yes, they are from the can. I've spent most of the day trying to identify things I found last Sunday. Some have been fairly simple, others...not so much. If I'm still having problems, I may post a couple of them for help in a day or so.

[VAB2013]

Wow, the can has turned out a bunch of nice varieties! Yeah, we'd like to see them, figured out, or not! There's plenty of RPM guru's around to help you out!

[Petespockets55]

That would be a die chip.

Similar to what causes BIE's. For some reason in the '50's quite a few show up on different years and mints.

The first ones I came across, I thought were enhanced or re-engraved.

[jfines69]

Nice find... I think Cliff is half correct??? I zoomed in to 400% (nice pic) and the NE outer section does look like a chip (layers)... I also compared the bow tie with a couple of others - Dinkyblue (Dan) and Joel (Larry a.k.a. LKOR) and Rowdys bow tie juts farther east in that section like the die edge chipped... I also noticed that the incuse area is clean like a struck thru (Hardware???) when comparing with info on Error Ref - Other than circ wear the edges are still sharp... The inside is smooth and does not exhibit signs of a hit (PSD)... Hope that helps a bit!!!

[VAB2013]

Jim, I was thinking a struck thru foreign object and maybe the chip looking thing was a result of that but I don't know enough to say. I'm not saying it's not a die chip, but I also noticed the inside of the incuse area is smooth and no other areas of hits that I could see. Rowdy, without someone like Mike Diamond seeing it to say 100% for sure you may have to label it "die chip on bow tie and possible struck through foreign object". Sometimes errors like these even stump the pros like Mike.

[mindtab]

Wow, the can has turned out a bunch of nice varieties! Yeah, we'd like to see them, figured out, or not! There's plenty of RPM guru's around to help you out!

Viv, sorry, been 'out' on the road for the last couple of months. Forgive my 'ignorance', but as am reading---> what is THE CAN? (things we put aside to later look at? Culls? ) Thanks.

[GrumpyEd]

I don't think it's a struck through because if it was the die always wins so it would be incuse if it fell out or flat there if it stayed, that thing looks like it extends raised east of the normal design so it has to be either a chip or a weird hit dug in and raised it up. My initial thought is it's a chip but an overlay showing where the "normal" ends would verify that. I mean that if some of the normal is gone then I'd think it's a pushed over thing from a weird hit, if the normal ends at the gap then it's a chip.

[Petespockets55]

It is also a LDS example judging by the die wear.

Rowdies very nice first image shows the bottom on the incuse area pretty well, and it looks irregular, like a crack, which is part of the reason for my saying it was a chip (large).

(The raised area sure does a good job of mimicking the profile of the bow tie, including the short ribbon below. And it is towards the center of the design which makes light contact during the initial working die creation. Is that separation and notching I see? Hmmmm... I wonder what a 3D image would show?)

[Rowdyricster]

Thanks Viv, Cliff, Jim and Ed. I appreciate all your help. I can understand the diagnosis of die chip. It's that very smooth incuse area that confuses me. I may try to do an overlay, as Ed suggests, but for now...back burner.

[Rowdyricster]

Viv, sorry, been 'out' on the road for the last couple of months. Forgive my 'ignorance', but as am reading---> what is THE CAN? (things we put aside to later look at? Culls? ) Thanks.

It just refers to a coffee can full of wheat cents I got from my neighbor a couple weeks ago.

[mindtab]

(Is that Folgers?) Lol Rowdy, thanks for clarifying that for me. I thought maybe it's some other system used here that I haven't gotten to read about yet. LMAO.