1920 p Lincoln Cent with wide rims

[Petespockets55]

Anyone have any idea what's up with the rims on this 1920p LWC. Proofs ended in 1916.

The surfaces look like they are streaked with linear pitting (or maybe a lamination issue) if that's possible. I don't think they have been altered post-strike because there is a small area of a slight raised (finning?) area on both rims.


(Images are courtesy of Vette1986 on Ebay.)

[GrumpyEd]

There are 1920 cents with very wide rims.

Still, that looks pretty off to me.
If I assume it's real, weight is perfect... then I think it was flattened somehow and that made the already wide rims look more flat and squared and maybe even the cheek/bust has a bit of flat areas from the same event.

Still, I have a hard time convincing myself it is real, it has those lines, texture like a sand cast and some stuff like the motto lettering looks odd, the E of WE has a little class 6 shape but the coin doesn't look like a class 6. Maybe it's fake and they flatten the rim because it looked bumpy?

The little fin doesn't tell me much, on one hand it's there but then even if you flatten it with something like a round disc or whatever could make that fin as well as the mint.

I wouldn't bet my life on anything about it other than it looks off



Adding, look at EPU, it also looks off. The E looks class 6 but nothing else then the letter size seems to change, too big then the R is small, L and U big and thin. Just not right.

[Petespockets55]

Thanks Ed. There's a lot of good info you mention. Some times things don't look right but it is hard to explain or put my finger on.

The condition and color of the field had me wondering if it was fake also.

EDIT: I just noticed the long anomaly above the date extends up onto the rim, which doesn't add up either.

[GrumpyEd]

I just noticed the long anomaly above the date extends up onto the rim, which doesn't add up either.

I saw that too.
It looks raised on the coin but on the rim it looks like it was flattened but you still see an outline of it. That makes me think the rim was flattened.

Added: Focus on the rim then look at the beard and cheek, they look flattened at the same level, real or fake, for some reason it was flattened.

If I had it in hand, I would weigh it and also see if it can plug into a fresh hole in a folder. That will show if it is slightly expanded.

[GrumpyEd]

To keep me confused, I looked at some pics of real 1920 cents and they do have the same bigger looking LU on EPU.

Maybe Bob, Coop or even CD will give you some thoughts on it.

[Petespockets55]

Thanks Ed.
I posted this one to the CC forum also and they were asking about the weight as well.

[GrumpyEd]

I know I had a 1920 with rims that wide and I remember seeing 2 others posted on forums. Maybe even on here or CC but I didn't find them. A careful search might find those other posts. They are bold looking and huge rims like that but not flat. If that is real it was really messed with and flattened. Or LOL, maybe there's a bunch of wide rim fakes LOL! I'm pretty sure the ones with big rims that are not that flat/sharp are real.

[makecents]

Another thing I noticed was how symmetric the rims are on this one. I just looked at a hundred or so pics of 1920 Lincolns on the net and they were practically all MADs.

[enamel7]

Could this cent have been encased at one time?

[Petespockets55]

Jon, those even rims caught my attention as well. Looking at proof images online, most (all?) were well centered and had that little thin ribbon of metal around part of the rim.
Thanks Enamel but I think the raised area on the outside of the rim above GOD would have been flattened out if it was encased.

I also noticed the VDB seems to be present on the bust so it would not have been made before 1918 if it's real.
And there was a Wikipedia reference (LincolnCentResource) I found saying that one illegally produced matte proof is known for 1917. So some dies were produced/around after the production stopped in 1916.


EDIT:I'm not sure if this little tidbit might have affected die production in 1920, but a lot fewer coins were produced in 1921 so the trend may have started in 1920 to reduce the number of dies needed. I wonder if the mint might have looked at bringing back the proof coins for numismatists starting in 1920 to make up for the reduced production anticipated in 1921.

EDIT: Added not & made above.

[dinkyblue]

Comparing your 1920p to some of mine, in that year they look a little wider anyway, I think it is normal for that year as circulation ware, as the coin is worn down the rim would be wider. Nice coin in good shape for that year...............Dan

[mustbebob]

I'm sorry, but I don't have a clue about this one. I can confirm that there were 1920 coins which appeared to have wider rims, but I never pursued that. I am as interested as anyone else here.

[Petespockets55]

Thanks Dan for comparing some of yours.
Thanks Bob. Hopefully, someone here or CCF will have some info or idea to come up with an answer.

Another little tidbit I noticed was that the height of the rim raised above the field seems to be less than normal. And I was wondering about a weak die adjustment strike keeping the proto-rim from being struck by the rim gutter on the die. I remembered the rims would still be rounded from the upturning mill even if they weren't touched by the die.

[dinkyblue]

I did notice one thing, on the older matte proof pennies 1916,1915,1912 etc. the rim looks a little flat and wider to me maybe the mint purchased some ready made blanks ment for proof coins. Just a thought..................Dan

[GrumpyEd]

I think it probably has nothing to do with proofs, it was already 4 years since they made proofs.

I'm still hoping someone can find a thread with a 1920 wide rim, they are clearly big and odd looking and not mad, it's even.
Maybe some odd occurrence like a die that was slightly small in diameter then if the blank was not upset maybe it caused the wide rim.

If we find some post with one, I think it will show they are big but not as flat looking, that coin might be one but was smashed or even encased as was pointed out and that caused it to look so off.