ANACS graded and slabbed or not?

[JeanK]

Here are a few pictures of coins I received Saturday. As you can see the first one is graded as MS67 Red, as are all six coins.

I have sent a message to the seller that I believe the slabs have suffered tampering and because of that I cannot accept them as is. I have asked that they either replace the coins with properly slabbed equivalents or refund my total cost, including return postage. I do not expect an answer over the weekend so I will wait a day or two before I confront the problem again.

The first picture is of the bottom edge of the 2008P slab, which at the right corner shows the slab is separated, in effect not sealed.

The second picture is of the 2008D slab with what appears to be pry marks on the left edge (as coin is facing you).
The third picture is of the same 2008D slab with what appears to be pry marks on the right edge (as coin is facing you).
The fourth and fifth pictures show the obverse and reverse of the same 2008D Inaugural Edition slabbed coin.

All of the six slabs appear to have been pried open so I cannot trust any of them. I am also questioning the validity of an MS67 grade for some coins that have what I think is too much post mint damage to receive such a grade. I can try to get pictures of this at a later time if you wish to see them.

Are these the correct ANACS labels, and type of coin for this year, and are the slabs suppose to have numbers?
If you received these coins would you expect for them to be replaced or your money refunded if they cannot replace them with the proper product?

I am trying to get a little bit ahead of the curve here with my dealing with an ebay seller, and your comments will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks bunches for checking,
Jean

[MintyFresh]

Jean, You should be protected by eBay's protection policy http://pages.ebay.com/coverage/index.html. I wouldn't even hassel with trying to get the coin reholdered. It looks like tampering and you are just allowing yourself to become victimized. A simple request for refund, no name calling exchanged. You have legitimate doubt. If the seller blows you off you have the full backing of eBay to get reimbursed. I once was sold a counterfit coin and got immediate resolution.

[JeanK]

Thanks Minty.
The last time I questioned an ebay seller I got the shaft and all my buyers stars wiped off, and he got the chance to sell again. Mind you this was after I received the steel cents and told him that I firmly believed they were replated (which was proven when I took them to Tom Miller at his shop) , but that I would keep them anyway, and was letting him know in case someone else questioned the coins. The guy got in a huff and reported me to ebay and things went against me even when I presented photographs and our messages to one another about the situation they chose to side with him. (as you can tell I am a bit gun-shy about confronting a big time ebay seller).

This seller says No Refunds on their page, but with this problem I would think that would be a moot point.
By the way, can you actually see the damage? It took some real work to get pictures that I thought would show the pry marks.
Jean

[BadThad]

ANACS slabs are sonically sealed, I do not believe they can be pryed open without completely ruining the slab. Also consider that these are pretty low dollar coins/slabs. I find it hard to believe that someone would go through the trouble to open them, replace the coins and then reseal. Sorry Jean, this is just my opinion and I wish you luck.

[rlm's cents]

I don't see pry marks. What I am seeing is where the plastic has oozed from the sealing process. Like Thad says, I doubt that anyone could ever pry open a sonically sealed slab. The 2 sides at literally melted (welded) together. The corner or the whole slab would shatter before it could be opened. As for your one corner not being sealed, the sonics only work when there is proper contact. If the slab is warped or there is something in the way, it will not seal.

[JeanK]

Actually the plastic looks as if it has been chipped away and not oozed.
My thought is that someone had these coins originally and took the good ones out of the ANACS slab and inserted lesser coins. For what reason I am not certain.
Believe it or not, I have opened several PCGS and ANACS slabs myself to use the coins in my albums, and had about the same result. The slab did not shatter at all. One only needs a nice sharp narrow chisel and a small tap with a hammer at each sealing spot to have a nice clean break and not damage the coin.
Now I wish I had kept the slabs to show how they fracture and chip the plastic away at the sealing point. And, if they are sonically sealed why can I get my thumb nail in between some of the slab edges?
Hmmmmm..
Jean

[1sgret]

My question is why are the slabs not serialized. Something just does not click with the slabs unless this was done for HSN or another firm that sells on TV. My opinion only!

[jfines69]

The slabs do look improper as Jean stated and as for serial numbers like Joe stated... There should be a replacement or refund!!!

[wolfkill]

good luck jean, i hope an pray the best for you

[JeanK]

Thank you everyone. I should hear from them this business day. Will keep you all informed.
Jean

[BadThad]

My question is why are the slabs not serialized. Something just does not click with the slabs unless this was done for HSC or another firm that sells on TV. My opinion only!

They didn't put serial numbers on the coins they graded for places like HSN. These were done in mass bulk for resale. I bought the 2009 special and, as I recall, none of them had SN's either. Yea, I bought coins from HSN!

The 2009 auto-ship Lincolns deal was actually a great deal....probably the only the only good deal they've ever had on coins. It sold out in like a month and they limited quantities once they realized they under-priced the offering.

[wolfkill]

do you have photos of the 2009s???

[BadThad]

do you have photos of the 2009s???

I don't think so, just ANACS slabbed MS-67 for each P/D issue. Frankly, they are graded mainly on lack of water spotting that is common to these. I found better examples in terms of hits for many just by cracking OBW rolls. Nonetheless, it was an excellent deal. As I recall I got P/D MS-67's for each of the 4 issues along with P/D ANACS MS-65 or better graded rolls, 4 certificates for free ANACS grading on ANY coin and 2 nice slab boxes. I sold the free grading certs for like $30 each so my net cost for the whole deal was like $40! Hard to believe HSN actually had one heck of deal, eh?

[jfines69]

If it was a HSN or similar deal that may also explain the holders... HSN and others would most likely get the least expensive method of sealing the holders resulting in damage of some sort... Still the seller should have stated where they came from if that is the case... Replacement or refund is still my opinion though!!!

[JeanK]

You LCRers are great coin buddies.

I did not think about HSN or such being the culprit because I bought from a dealer. Of course, that does not negate the idea that the slabs are damaged, and some of the coins have way too much post mint damage to be MS67... and I do not care who did the grading, or how fast they were graded, and for whom. I would have returned them to HSN if I had purchased them there.

At this point I have been contacted by the dealer and they have been very kind and offered replacements and to refund my return shipping cost. But I do think they will discover that my claim is justified, and if the next batch are not up to standards they too will be returned.

I do not ask for perfection in MS67 graded and slabbed coins. And, if I sent some of these coins to ANACS to be slabbed, I seriously doubt they would not give them as a good of a grade.

Thanks bunches again!
Jean