Question on 1909 VDB Authenticity

[josht]

Couple of questions on this one:

1) Do the same rules regarding the offset period in the V.D.B apply to the 1909 V.D.B as well as the V.D.B/S?
(got a bid out for this one right now. _pichttp://i.ebayimg.com/t/Uncirculated-1909-VDB-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent-Free-Shipping-/00/s/NzgwWDc4OQ==/$%28KGrHqN,!k0FBSJ+PEU-BQd0pL,Vlw~~60_3.JPG

2) How would a fake like the '09s VDB, where materiel is actually added to the coin, be achieved? Is the entire coin manufactured by the counterfeiter?

[Maineman750]

I started a new thread to help you get a more focused response.
IMO, the periods on a VDB should be the same as on the S cent. My BU example has the period centered, yours looks suspiciuous.But I am not positive, maybe somebody else will chime in.
Fakes can be cast, minted from dies, or altered. The altered ones typically have an S added.

[trails]

The master die for the 1909 included the 1909(P) with V.D.B. as well as the 1909-S with V.D.B. So all coins struck with working dies made from that master die were the same. As for the 1909 without the V.D.B. (both [P] and S versions), they also were struck from the same master dies, only the V.D.B. had been removed.

The placement of the periods in the initials V.D.B. does look a bit suspicious. However, a trip to a coin show and one of the top TPGs will tell you if your coin is real or not. If it is real, get it encapsulated.

BJ Neff

[BadThad]

I hope you're not bidding on a raw 1909-S VDB. Most of them on ebay are fakes.

[jallengomez]

Is this coin supposed to be an S v.d.b, or just a 1909 v.d.b? It's definitely not a legitimate S v.d.b.

[rlm's cents]

No, the same rules do NOT apply the dot on to the VDB as they do to the S VDB. However, the S VDB has the same placement as the proof VDB's.

Secondly, there are many ways of adding material to fake a coin. Gluing on a MM is often done. I have heard that they can drill into the side of a coin and enlarge an area. In today's society, I would guess that the most common method is just for them to use their fake dies and restrike another coin. The Chinese are getting very good at that.

[Roller]

Now everything's clear as mud. We don't know if it's an S or P and the dots are all over the place. I thought the original thread was about a P 1909.

[willbrooks]

Couple of great links for those still honing their detection skills.

http://reviews.ebay.com/Coin-Fake-Detection-1909-S-VDB-Lincoln-Cent?ugid=10000000015293333

http://www.cointalk.com/t78043/

[Maineman750]

He is questioning a 1909P VDB on question number 1
The second question is about fake S-VDB's
(I see how others were confused)

RLM, my BU VDB has the dot centered between the B & D like the example for S VDB in our beginners forum, are you saying the dot can vary in location ?

[trails]

I just got off the phone with Randy Campbell, the head grader for ICG. Randy has seen his share of fake 1909-S V.D.B. and knows what to look for.

The periods or dots in the initials are a non-factor in determining if the coin is real or not. The biggest indicator is the S mintmark and its location. There are four precise locations of the S mintmark on the coin. One of the four locations of that mintmark must precisely match on the coin in question for it to be real.

BJ Neff

[liveandievarieties]

Let's clarify-

BJ- Are you saying that the placement of the dots in the VDB ON AN S-MINT coin are not pertinent in authentication? Or that in all VDB coins the dot's aren't the focal point? I'm not picking points, just wanting to clear up what's been confused.

I'm familiar with the fact that there are 4 different mm placements on authentic SVDBs.

[rlm's cents]

He is questioning a 1909P VDB on question number 1
The second question is about fake S-VDB's
(I see how others were confused)

RLM, my BU VDB has the dot centered between the B & D like the example for S VDB in our beginners forum, are you saying the dot can vary in location ?

The dot on the S vdb is only centered. However, the P can vary between centered and left. So far as I know, those are the only 2 locations.

[Maineman750]

The dot on the S vdb is only centered. However, the P can vary between centered and left. So far as I know, those are the only 2 locations.

Thanks, I started another thread specifically for dots...do you know if there is a correlation between dot placement and RDV-001 or RDV-002 ?

[josht]

So.... the verdict on the NON "S" mint-mark bearing, 1909 VDB lincoln wheat cent, the first coin in the series, is that...?
The period's location between the initials, as posted in my link, is no matter of concern?
Granted, it's a much cheaper coin, comparatively speaking, but I would think it feasible that a Counterfeiter might exchange the dies from time to time to make a quicker, not so "under the 'scope" dollar.

[josht]

Thank you. And yes, this post does keep sorta going back to 'Frisco.