coppercoins.com - new site - need some input for 'My Coppercoins'.

[coppercoins]

How's that for a title? To keep this thread from going viral in off-topic directions, I am limiting input to the 'My Coppercoins' section of the site. I need ideas regarding just how this section of the site should function. I will explain what I envision, and welcome input as to how it could be tweaked to meet YOUR needs...so here goes:

My Coppercoins is an idea that I came up with when I thought that it would be nice to be able to use my own data to create 'want' and 'have' lists of the master collection of coppercoins.com. While I do have probably two-thirds of the listed dies, there are hundreds upon hundreds that I do not have an example of an actual coin because they were coins sent in by collectors for attribution over the years.

Each collector can create an "account", and within that account they will have their own interface where they can record the coins they have and what grades those coins are - additionally, they can record the cost of said coins. I am even considering the possibility of image hosting and allowing them to store an image of the coins. This would work with both 'normal' Lincoln cents and with die varieties. There has been some thought given to allowing for varieties and errors, but I haven't hammered out the logic for that concept yet, and don't know if it will fit well in the grander scheme of things.

Collectors will be able to make their entire online 'inventory' viewable to the public, kept completely private, or segmented in different fashions to make segments public or private. For instance, if you have been on RPMs for years and are just getting started in doubled dies, you can make your RPMs public, and keep the doubled dies private until you decide to make them public. You name the segments yourself into "collections" and the database figures out what a "complete" collection is and reports the contents of that collection to you based on the data you have entered. So you could segment coins you're keeping from those you're offering for sale or trade to other collectors, and move coins from one collection to the other as you see fit.

There will be a limit to how many coins can be stored per account, and the number of collections those coins can be segmented into. Additionally there will have to be a limit as to how many reports you can generate in a given time period. I can just see some zealous collector creating a hundred new reports in a day, taxing the system and slowing it down for other collectors. I do suppose I can create a higher level user account that pays more and gets to do more.

Collectors will also be able to generate reports and filter those reports based on a number of criteria, all spit out by the database in neat, printable format. So if you ever wonder which RPMs from 1909-1958 you need that have a visibility of three or more stars, you can generate that report and print it out or save it.

What's more...the complete Lincoln cent price guide will be tied to this system, so IN those reports we can show values for the coins you have (or need) in all grades. Given that, you can print out a complete inventory that has all the values we assigned for your coins for insurance purposes or other uses...like selling your collection in total or in part.

Now if you're not a die variety collector but STILL want to jump in and inventory your Lincoln cent collection - never worry...all the same functionality will be available completely ignoring die numbers.

So...with all this information, I can tell you that the MONTHLY fee to use this system will be between $5 and $8 per collector, payable in 6-month or annual installments. There could possibly be a power-user level that would cost a few dollars more per month, and I am considering a limited, paid "quick access" fee for people who just want to look a few things up and don't want to pay for monthly membership. Of course this level would not have access to create a My Coppercoins account.

With the subscription membership, collectors would have access to ALL the die variety marker images, full access to My Coppercoins (described above) and would have access to the entire price guide at once (also filterable).

For those who do not join, free visitor access will be limited to die search listings (no marker photos), limited access to view public "My Coppercoins" collections, and the price guide will only show by die and/or date. Access to the entire price guide, as well as the same in PDF printable format would be limited to paid subscribers.

So I ask you now...what "features" of "My Coppercoins" would you want that you did not see above? There are obviously details that I might have left out, but that's okay...this is a conversation. Converse away!

[Maineman750]

It sounds like you have put quite a bit of thought into it already..and I can't wait. But I see one small glitch that is probably an exception. The price guide is handy, but let's say I had kept my 1972 die 4 (AU58)....the price realized was $2990, far greater than most price guide range of $1000-1500. Would there be a way to note what I actually paid (had I bought it) for insurance purposes?

[coppercoins]

I assume I could create any report to show any sort of data that is kept, so if you were to create a report of all the coins you had and include 'value' and 'cost' both would show on the report.

Not that you're asking for this, but I don't think it's healthy to allow you to substitute one for the other on the report and always show the one that is 'higher', so I don't think I will be allowing for that.

[coop]

1. Subscribers might enjoy a listing of coins on each die that they search for that others have duplicates of. A link to this right at the time of searching.
2. The image hosting would be nice.
3. Other areas of copper coins would be nice. Large cent, Indians. RPDs- other year varieties (large/small dates/slanted ......

[Maineman750]

I think your solution to my problem would be great,Chuck.

I like coop's idea about extras,but I think rather than listing what I need, it would be better if I could put a check next to what I have multiples of...that way somebody could contact me if they were interested in an example.

[ray_parkhurst]

I see huge value in coops idea for listing of extras, and this aspect of the site would naturally suggest a simple system for contacting members about purchases or trades, sort of a clearinghouse concept that could be facilitated by the My Coppercoins functionality.

Some sort of "new finds" or "new attributions" section would be nice as well so that there is a broadly-disseminated way for all members to see all the new coins being attributed. This might already exist on the site, but pulling this functionality to a "My" page would be useful. On that same note, giving customizable links to all other areas of Coppercoins, and perhaps LCR or any other external sites would be very helpful. This would be in the spirit of a "one page" customizable coin site.

Ray

[coop]

Some sort of "new finds" or "new attributions" section would be nice as well so that there is a broadly-disseminated way for all members to see all the new coins being attributed. This might already exist on the site, but pulling this functionality to a "My" page would be useful. On that same note, giving customizable links to all other areas of Coppercoins, and perhaps LCR or any other external sites would be very helpful. This would be in the spirit of a "one page" customizable coin site.

Ray

That would also be a plus for membership if the heads up would be part of the members area.

[coppercoins]

The idea of being able to list "extras" as "available" came to mind and isn't a bad idea. Not sure about the legalities of doing this, though. eBay has a huge team of attorneys working for them to ensure they are not liable for other people performing transactions using their site as a venue. I do not have such resources and could find myself in legal deep water allowing on-site trading and selling.

With regard to "other parts of coppercoins" - like Large cents, Indian cents, and other series - I don't know them, don't profess to know them, and had someone promising to help with that when we started coppercoins, hence the name. But since this has become a Lincoln cent only site over time, that's where I will keep the focus. I am going to remove the 'departments' area that alludes to the possibility that information for other series might be found at the site. Instead of trying to spread thin and cover everything, my intent is to focus much more intensely on every aspect of Lincoln cents.

I am sure at some point we will be able to flesh out just about any sort of report a person wants considering the data was saved for such reports. I cannot sort collectors by hair color if I don't record their hair color in their profile - a stupid hypothetical case, but you get the drift. This was one of the main reasons why I started this thread...to get ideas on what people thought they should se in this area so I could ensure I was collecting the information they would need.

One of the big problems with this entire idea is that people are inevitably going to put coins in the system as something they are not. Without some sort of 'certification' by coppercoins staff, there can be no guarantees of what a coin is that someone has listed in the system, or in fact whether the coin even exists. Once we can figure out whether 'certifying' finds is a good move, we can discuss entering serial numbers of 'certified' coins so there can be a fair trading market and even possibly a registry set idea.

For now, it's simply a method of keeping track of one's own hoard, and not a system for buying, selling, and trading coins.

[coppercoins]

And to address the "new attributions" idea - that is already in place on the current site. Find it at the home page where the number of images and number of dies is shown. There's a link to "new listings" below the numbers. I do understand giving a report that new dies have been added and to update reports and collections accordingly - that will be added into My Coppercoins. Something of an "alerts" news feed.

[Maineman750]

My thoughts on the "extras" were that there would be no interaction by coppercoins...I was thinking that if I saw that liveanddievarieties had an extra, it would be up to me to contact him using whatever methods I chose....keeping coppercoins completely out of the loop and liability. The only information on the site would be that I owned multiples.

[ray_parkhurst]

My thoughts on the "extras" were that there would be no interaction by coppercoins...I was thinking that if I saw that liveanddievarieties had an extra, it would be up to me to contact him using whatever methods I chose....keeping coppercoins completely out of the loop and liability. The only information on the site would be that I owned multiples.

That would probably be safest from legal viewpoint. As long as both "want" and "extras/have" lists are included it seems like free market forces should put buyers/sellers/traders together fairly efficiently.

Ray

[Scott99]

The information on coppercoins is very valuable! I read through the thoughts and ideas that everyone has listed but really what I think would be most important is to raise the standards for the listings themselves. My main concern would be the size of the reference images and number of images of the dies and die markers as one photo of one die marker is not very sufficient in a lot of cases when trying to identify a die.

[ray_parkhurst]

If folks put up their own pictures of coins they own, these will add to the database of existing photos. Let's say you find a 1947-S RPM#2. With the MyCC functionality you could compare it with not just the CC pictures but with those uploaded by others.

Personally I love the idea of having a place to upload and share the pics I take of my varieties, both full-coin and details, and having this available is already encouraging me to consider a more extensive photo documentation of my collection. So far, I've engaged only in sharing ad hoc photos on LCR and other forums, since I'm loathe to take hundreds of pics just to look at them myself. But having a well-organized and community-based method of sharing those photos appeals to me, even though I am NOT AT ALL into the usual social media channels. I would view it (and I assume Chuck intends this) similarly to the "Registry" on PCGS/NGC/etc and in fact score can be kept with the database in a similar way.

[coppercoins]

The idea of My Coppercoins turning into a photo hosting service was not necessarily my intent and is not a highly popular idea with me - mainly because of the expense of operating a server with that many more images on it than we already have...and that number could be quite large. It was more a fleeting thought on my part than a rock-solid plan. Much of that would depend on the number of people who are willing to opt-in to the paid membership. If enough, I could see the revenue stream being enough to rent a more powerful server than the one we have now.

To touch on the idea of "raising the standards" - the current version of coppercoins was started on a server with a 500Mb space limit and at a time when 800px wide screens were the norm. Now we have 20Gb of storage space, and the 'standard' is resolutions of 1024px or higher. in fact, the new website is being designed so that if you have a resolution less than 1024px wide, you're going to have to scroll side to side to see the entire website. Anyhow, with all that in mind, you can understand why I put the limits I did on the image size. That will change over time. I cannot just go in and resize nearly 20,000 images. Each one will have to be manually re-done so the new images are of-quality and don't lose resolution.

Now, with regard to the NUMBER of images per die...there are often cases where taking more than a couple of images is not worthwhile because there ARE no decent markers to photograph. We give ALL the information we have on coins examined when we examine them. We do not hold anything back and publish every image we see as important for identifying a coin to a die. I detect indication to the contrary, which is actually somewhat offensive - as if we don't try hard enough when we list coins with only a couple of images. Sometimes that's all the information we can pick from the coin - end of story. No amount of updating the site is going to change that fact.

I WILL remind you that our website is STILL the ONLY place you can find marker images for more than three fourths of the dies we have listed...online or anyplace else.

[coppercoins]

It might also be worth mentioning that if we end up with a couple hundred members using My Coppercoins that we will probably have to move to a more expensive server anyway because of the sheer size of the database required for such a project.

And the "funds" that come from membership fees will in large part come back to Bob and myself for the tireless YEARS and countless hours BOTH of us have put into this project out of pocket and with donated coins and money from a few very appreciated collectors. By the numbers, more than 90% of the people who visit coppercoins.com don't pay a dime for its existence.

The remainder of the profit from running the site will go into advertising, the cost of creating and printing books, software for future site development, and equipment that Bob and I need to continue running the site. I have not bought a new microscope since 2005 and mine is in dire need of repair or replacement.

If the site happens to make enough money, I will consider paying a third developer to assist in adding function and features to the website to make it bigger and more enjoyable to those who pay to use it.

I will restate - IMPORTANT - there will still be a number of useful parts of the site that will ALWAYS remain FREE to the public. I believe in giving back to the community, but after 14 years of constantly giving, it's time to take back a little. For the most intense parts of the site that take up the most space and the most bandwidth - I must charge a fee or shut down. I chose the former.