I Have Walked in Your Shoes.

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  • coppercoins
    Lincoln Cent Variety Expert
    • Dec 2008
    • 2482

    #1

    I Have Walked in Your Shoes.

    With regard to die varieties, errors, collectible and non-collectible anomalies, and other things coin related, I want all of the novice collectors here to read and understand what I am about to write. It is important, and it comes from the heart.

    I started collecting Lincoln cents in 1975 at the age of seven. I wouldn't find out about die varieties and errors for another ten years, but had a great time filling folders with coins and bugging my dad to let me go through his change. I collected nickels, dimes, and quarters to some degree, but cents were my coin of choice, and Lincoln cents were - for the most part - very inexpensive and easy to find.

    When I first found out about "errors and varieties" it was through a book published by John Wexler, then a couple of other books about errors and oddities - one by the late Frank Spadone, and the other by the late Arnold Margolis. I was naive enough to believe that "doubled dies" only came on small change, could really only afford cents, and it just 'stuck' with me to specialize in them.

    My first doubled die find was a listing in the new Red Book in 1982 where I found that there were 1939 nickels with premium value because of doubling on MONTICELLO. I popped mine out of the folder to look at the back, and - behold - it was one of these doubled dies.

    I went on collecting Lincoln cents looking at them much more closely than before, pulling out anything that looked 'doubled' - because that's what you're supposed to look for, right? I also pulled out die cracks and anything else that didn't look "right". Ten or so years I collected like this, without any real direction.

    In 1996 I discovered ebay, and in 1997 I discovered HTML - and off I went with my first PC trying to find the website about doubled dies. Oddly enough I discovered that there was no website for doubled dies and repunched mintmarks on the Lincoln cent, so I decided to create it myself. By then I had weeded out the thousands and thousands of coins I had collected over the years with 'doubling' because with the eBay purchase of a few doubled dies from the late Frank Baumann, the epiphany hit me that the dies held the flaw, and the scratches and other flaws on the dies made "markers" - and that every coin minted by each individual die were virtually identical to each other. I found this fascinating.

    In 1996 I purchased John's Authoritative Reference, and that's when the concept hit me that not everything known was listed in the books. There was a 1970S proof doubled die listed with a die number in the 20s, but there were not 20 listings in the book. I actually found his email address and asked him about that, and he said there were hundreds of known dies that were not listed in any reference.

    I set out to change that, and did.

    My message to you:

    I collected without direction for years. I saved machine doubling, small die chips, cracks, and other "oddities". I didn't know a machine doubled coin from a doubled die for probably the first ten years I collected them. I didn't know the terminology any more than some of the first-year collectors reading this message. In most senses, I am JUST LIKE YOU.

    I learned. I put my head down, went through the coins carefully, and taught myself what I needed to know with the help of a couple of reference books and a couple of chat rooms. I decided that it was not 'fair' to the world for attributers to collect money to 'list' stuff and keep the listings mostly private. This only perpetuates continued attribution fees infinitum. I decided that making EVERYTHING public was the only way to go, thus my site was born.

    I am a person of continued unrelenting drive. When I want something done, I find the right resources, and if nobody is willing to help, I go at it alone. Fortunately, I have made connections and friends with some of the most knowledgeable people in the market over the years, and through the help of other collectors, I have been able to provide a website everyone can use to learn the hobby. It's not perfect, but it's the best I could do at the time I wrote it with the resources I had.

    So...when I say something is not what a person thinks it is, I'm not on a high-horse. I'm speaking from damn near 30 years of concentrated effort to learn the subject. From years and years of learning programming JUST to bring the site to reality. From years and years of actually talking with some of the most noted experts in the field to LEARN how to be the best I could be at what I do.

    Please do not take me to be crass, heartless, mean, or uncaring. I do care. I wouldn't be here if I didn't. I am not especially a 'people' person, and am not sure I can change that...and not really sure I want to. But I do want all of you to know that I care deeply about YOUR education in coins, and am doing all I can to make that education easier on YOU. That's how I care about you. That's what I want YOU to remember when I give you a short, cold answer. I do this all the time. I can't have 'feeling' about every coin posted here. I shoot straight and an completely unbiased.

    Thank you all for listening.
    Charles D. Daughtrey, NLG, Author, "Looking Through Lincoln Cents"
    [URL="http://www.coppercoins.com/"]http://www.coppercoins.com[/URL]
  • admrose
    Member
    • Jan 2013
    • 1077

    #2
    I'd rather a harsh answer ahead of time than a harsh lesson afterwards.
    2013 Circulation Variety Finds
    My eBay Listings

    Comment

    • coppercoins
      Lincoln Cent Variety Expert
      • Dec 2008
      • 2482

      #3
      My Mark Twain "Advice to Youth" (although without the sarcasm) would be the following points:

      1. Decide if this hobby is right for you - try to understand it as much as possible. Ask questions and expect to listen to the answers. If, after a while, you still just don't get it...no judgement passed. You probably just don't belong in it. There are plenty of fun hobbies out there that probably are for you.

      2. Take your FIRST $50 in the hobby and buy a REAL doubled die and a REAL repunched mintmark from a trusted source. Then study them like there are no other coins on the planet until you know every millimeter of them. Read about and LEARN them, and know the markers on them without fail. Your brain will "click" and you WILL KNOW what you are doing from that point forward. I can almost guarantee it.

      3. Study your marking and storage method as much as you study the coins. It is of paramount importance for you to keep your collection organized if you are going to collect die varieties and/or errors.

      4. BE PATIENT!!! It took me over 10 years to learn this hobby inside and out, and a LOT of coins to find anything of real value. DO NOT expect to find something in every roll you go through. If you do, this hobby is definitely NOT right for you. Also do not expect a return for the time you spend in the hobby. The profit you make from what you find will likely never cover the cost in time you spend finding them. Making a living of any kind in die varieties and errors is VERY TOUGH! That's why there aren't die variety and error coin shops opposite every corner gas station in the nation. In fact, that's why there MIGHT be two dealers at every national show you go to who specialize in such things.
      Charles D. Daughtrey, NLG, Author, "Looking Through Lincoln Cents"
      [URL="http://www.coppercoins.com/"]http://www.coppercoins.com[/URL]

      Comment

      • coppercoins
        Lincoln Cent Variety Expert
        • Dec 2008
        • 2482

        #4
        My quote - and you can use it, but this is my original:

        Die variety collecting is for people obsessed with building the impossible set of items of which the members of the set are virtually identical to everyone else.

        If you don't match this statement, you're probably in the wrong hobby.
        Charles D. Daughtrey, NLG, Author, "Looking Through Lincoln Cents"
        [URL="http://www.coppercoins.com/"]http://www.coppercoins.com[/URL]

        Comment

        • coppercoins
          Lincoln Cent Variety Expert
          • Dec 2008
          • 2482

          #5
          We are the ONLY people on this planet who will carefully assemble 150 "different" common date (1960-D) cents and STILL say our collection is not complete. I call that borderline insanity - and the only people who understand the insanity are the other people doing the same thing.
          Charles D. Daughtrey, NLG, Author, "Looking Through Lincoln Cents"
          [URL="http://www.coppercoins.com/"]http://www.coppercoins.com[/URL]

          Comment

          • coppercoins
            Lincoln Cent Variety Expert
            • Dec 2008
            • 2482

            #6
            If experts don't create other experts out of novices, their own expertise is at great risk of becoming obsolete. That would be a grave waste of expertise.

            - another friendly quote by yours truly.
            Charles D. Daughtrey, NLG, Author, "Looking Through Lincoln Cents"
            [URL="http://www.coppercoins.com/"]http://www.coppercoins.com[/URL]

            Comment

            • enamel7
              Paid Member

              • Apr 2009
              • 4047

              #7
              Charles,
              I always find your responses direct and to the point. I like it that way because I am of the same temperament. Knowledge is power and that makes you a powerful force. Don't change a thing.
              Gilbert

              Comment

              • coppercoins
                Lincoln Cent Variety Expert
                • Dec 2008
                • 2482

                #8
                I am out of philosophical thoughts for the moment, but I have noticed and appreciate the post 'thanks' and replies. My self-imposed responsibility to each person here who cares enough to listen is to be unbiased, thoughtful in my responses, and as thorough as I can be in ensuring you get what you came here for - clear, concise, yet comprehensive responses to the time you've spent presenting your questions and concerns.

                Sorry if I've been a bit long winded, but an unnamed more novice collector sent a private apology to me this morning for disagreeing with me - as if they felt like they had blasphemed religion to disagree with me. I do not want to be seen this way. I felt it necessary to 'clear the air' with some flowing thought, and no better place to do it than in the presence of those I consider my online friends.
                Charles D. Daughtrey, NLG, Author, "Looking Through Lincoln Cents"
                [URL="http://www.coppercoins.com/"]http://www.coppercoins.com[/URL]

                Comment

                • Rollem
                  Administrator

                  • Feb 2011
                  • 2823

                  #9
                  Albert Schweitzer said: “The tragedy of life is what dies inside a man while he lives.”

                  1. Don't lose your passion "Rollem"

                  2. Don't die before passing most of that to others and the "old guy" "Rollem"

                  I was afraid a while back it was all gone when you were discouraged.

                  3. Keep the sharpness in speech and sight. "Say it frankly and sharp, I don't hear good."

                  In these post and chats I agree you are not always a people person, "But a confident Professional"

                  One might say, You are the only known variety for 1968. a ddo / ddr 001

                  Regards
                  James
                  "Good People are Great Forums" Rollem

                  Comment

                  • addictedtocoins
                    Member
                    • Jan 2012
                    • 401

                    #10
                    Coppercoins...Being a martial arts instructor for quite sometime, I completely understand how you and most of the other experts here feel. Coin collecting and martial arts have a lot in common. It takes patience, hard work, research, and being able to accept the fact that there is always room for improvement and there is always someone more skilled and knowledgeable. It's the same as when a student thinks they are ready to test for the next level and I as an instructor know they're not ready. It doesn't go over well most times. I compare that to someone here thinking that they have something and they don't...It doesn't go over to well with some people. I have on many occasions thought I had a coin that was a doubled die or an error. When I'm told it's not I look at the fact that most people here have been doing this a lot longer than I have and I get back to searching again.

                    Comment

                    • Arjohn
                      Member
                      • Mar 2013
                      • 828

                      #11
                      I have been absent from collecting for a long time. I left with just a partially filled Lincoln Cent collection. My goal after picking those old folders up, was to complete the collection. When I found this site, many questions were answered - I was intrigued by the oddities and obvious errors I found and saw, but the variety part has not stuck. Still this is a wonderful place to gain knowledge and to identify cents I find.... Thank you all
                      ArJohn

                      Comment

                      • Antiquity
                        Member
                        • Jan 2011
                        • 1590

                        #12
                        Chuck is turning into a big ol softie in his old age.
                        THOMAS J.

                        Comment

                        • coppercoins
                          Lincoln Cent Variety Expert
                          • Dec 2008
                          • 2482

                          #13
                          More like I've always had the soft spot, I'm just letting my guard down some.
                          Charles D. Daughtrey, NLG, Author, "Looking Through Lincoln Cents"
                          [URL="http://www.coppercoins.com/"]http://www.coppercoins.com[/URL]

                          Comment

                          • Rollem
                            Administrator

                            • Feb 2011
                            • 2823

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Antiquity
                            Chuck is turning into a big ol softie in his old age.
                            Careful.. no telling what might unwrap here!
                            "Good People are Great Forums" Rollem

                            Comment

                            • simonm
                              Member
                              • Sep 2010
                              • 6398

                              #15
                              A very good read with lots of info. I'll definitely take a lot of this to heart. Thanks, Chuck.
                              My old coin album.

                              Comment

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