General question about Doubled Dies

[VAB2013]

How long did the US Mint allow a Doubled Die to continue production? I realize that is a very vague question that may or may not have an answer. For instance, do you think the Mint knew about a lot of the Doubled Dies as they were being minted and just kept running them because of economic or other reasons?

Also, if one of the dies was changed out and the die they kept using was a doubled die, why wouldn't they discontinue use of the doubled die die?

Just kind of reminds me of the day at work I only needed 20 copies and accidentally pushed an extra zero, got busy on the phone and I had made 200 copies LOL

[Gatito360NY]

Hi i am new on the forum can you help me how i can do a new thread please ... Thanks i have a couple photos to upload i need help whit those pics... Thanks VAB2013

[GrumpyEd]

I think for any of the major ones they would pull the die right away when they noticed it.

Maybe (just my guess) for most of the minor stuff like doubled columns, eyelids, tiny shifts on single squeezed dies etc... I doubt they would pull a die from use.
Another relevant question is when they inspect the new dies would they pull them for the minor stuff if they see it, I don't know the answer.

[VAB2013]

Hello and Welcome to the forum Gatito! I am not very good at explaining things but I am sure one of our Moderators will see your question and be happy to help you.

[willbrooks]

How long did the US Mint allow a Doubled Die to continue production? I realize that is a very vague question that may or may not have an answer. For instance, do you think the Mint knew about a lot of the Doubled Dies as they were being minted and just kept running them because of economic or other reasons?

Also, if one of the dies was changed out and the die they kept using was a doubled die, why wouldn't they discontinue use of the doubled die die?

Just kind of reminds me of the day at work I only needed 20 copies and accidentally pushed an extra zero, got busy on the phone and I had made 200 copies LOL

You just answered your own question.

Mint workers are people. They have chaotic lives, and nagging wives, and idiotic husbands, who were once has-beens.
I mean, they are just workers like we all are.
Do you think that the people at the mint are super special, and gifted, and that their eff-ups are special? Yes, that is exactly what we think. But in reality, they are just factory workers like every other factory workers. Lazy, and careless, and criminal, and selfish, and wreckless, and hungover, and hates the man, etc. I watch them work sometimes and wonder how anything comes out right! Go to the mint sometime and see for yourself. It is a factory, and whatever skilled people may work there are a minority. It is run the same way any factory is, with unskilled laborers who learn on the job.

[VAB2013]

Thank you GrumpyEd, trying to figure out this 1983P DDO made me wonder about that. I think one of the 1983 DDO's had a reverse die change.

[Gatito360NY]

VAB2013 Thanks i did it ready check my new post and help me to know what doni have ... Thanks

[VAB2013]

Thank you Will. You have an insight to the Mint that most people would not have who haven't been there. Thanks for sharing that. I imagined it as being a very strictly operated operation.

[GrumpyEd]

It is a factory, and whatever skilled people may work there are a minority.

Exactly!

That's why I think the die inspection when it's made might have a tighter inspection criteria than any check on the production floor. I have read that the person inspecting the dies "signs off" their inspection. I also remember seeing in a video of the mint that when they start a new die they grab a handful of the first coins and loup a few and if it looks ok they proceed to mix them with the days output.

Also remember the story about the 55 DDO which may or may not be fact but... it was something like they had a catch bin and were going to inspect that first bunch but it had already overflowed some coins into the days run by the time they inspected some, at that point someone made the call that they needed the days run to ship even though they knew some of the 55 DDOs were in it. Ever hear that version of the story?

[Frank]

You just answered your own question.

Mint workers are people. They have chaotic lives, and nagging wives, and idiotic husbands, who were once has-beens.
I mean, they are just workers like we all are.
Do you think that the people at the mint are super special, and gifted, and that their eff-ups are special? Yes, that is exactly what we think. But in reality, they are just factory workers like every other factory workers. Lazy, and careless, and criminal, and selfish, and wreckless, and hungover, and hates the man, etc. I watch them work sometimes and wonder how anything comes out right! Go to the mint sometime and see for yourself. It is a factory, and whatever skilled people may work there are a minority. It is run the same way any factory is, with unskilled laborers who learn on the job.

This is my favorite post today!!

Absolutely stellar job, Will. I used to be a Customs Broker, and people think that the Inspectors are some sort of super-human as well. Nothing new under the sun; people are people. Brilliant, flawed, preoccupied, and unique. Most of the Inspectors I knew were wonderful to talk with, with no shortage of anecdotes!

[jfines69]

If memory serves me correctly - The mint inspects a very small amount of the output from the machines and with a 3x loupe... The coins are new and bright so reflection and a 3x loupe would make it difficult to see much... That coupled with Wills' insight and we get some goodies... I think the mint plans these out why else would the treasury have a Numismatic Section Lots of money in the after mint market for errors and varieties

[Justafarmer]

You just answered your own question.

Mint workers are people. They have chaotic lives, and nagging wives, and idiotic husbands, who were once has-beens.
I mean, they are just workers like we all are.
Do you think that the people at the mint are super special, and gifted, and that their eff-ups are special? Yes, that is exactly what we think. But in reality, they are just factory workers like every other factory workers. Lazy, and careless, and criminal, and selfish, and wreckless, and hungover, and hates the man, etc. I watch them work sometimes and wonder how anything comes out right! Go to the mint sometime and see for yourself. It is a factory, and whatever skilled people may work there are a minority. It is run the same way any factory is, with unskilled laborers who learn on the job.

The 1969 S DDO-001 is a good example. Extreme doubling existing on the die yet the mint employee still punches it with a mint mark without noticing the flaw.

[Petespockets55]

The 1969 S DDO-001 is a good example. Extreme doubling existing on the die yet the mint employee still punches it with a mint mark without noticing the flaw.

Thanks for the strong visual image. Very good example of a mint employee that must have seen the doubling but overlooking it when punching the MM into the die face.
The mint worker hunched over his (her?) work station with headband loupe over their eyes to get the placement of the MM oriented in the right location (close- more or less) and there being no way to miss the doubling on this die.

[Maineman750]

Mint mark worker says " That's not my job"....and they probably don't even look for doubling because doubling was normal for them

[jfines69]

Mint mark worker says " That's not my job"....and they probably don't even look for doubling because doubling was normal for them

Especially after a couple noggs