Class VIII/VIIII doubling?

[fugnchill]

Hi All,

With all the excitement about the Log Splitter DDR'S I remembered the extra log on the birth place cent and searched the history to find the thread. I couldn't remember if it had been authenticated and it has been and listed on Coppercoins. Now, I thought these new DDR's were class VIII Tilted Hub Doubling but all of the 2009's are listed as class IX which I thought were Trails/Wavy Steps.

Am I confused about my classes?... (Ah memories of High School)

Thanks,
Lestrrr

[jcuve]

For some reason I thought Coppercoins (exclusively) listed (most if not all) doubled dies produced using a single squeeze press as class IX (9). This includes WS and trails. I could be wrong and someone should PM Bob and ask him specifically...

[fugnchill]

That's right, I meant to also ask how is class IX described? Class VIII (Tilted Hub), Class IX (?)?. I'll PM Bob and post his response here if he doesn't do it himself. I figured if I'm wondering then someone else may be also... You know, share the knowledge.

Lestrrr

[jcuve]

I think I am wrong. Looks like Billy created the new "class 9."

I was looking at Chuck's book, "Looking Through Lincoln Cents" and on page 37, he explains Shifted Hub Doubling: "...when a slightly misaligned die 'pops' into position under the constant pressure of the hub and its thousands of pounds of force."

[Steven]

Here is a thread from coppercoins.com that may help.

http://www.coppercoins.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4776&highlight=classes+doubled+dies

[fugnchill]

I don't know if I agree with the definition of Class IX on that thread:
"Class 9, single squeeze hub doubling, think of it as putting your hand in mud then moving it. You get a wide image but no separation."

That's classic MDD and as we know, the images are separated.

Lestrrr

[mustbebob]

Lestrrr, You have to remember that the die is conical shaped while being hubbed. The 'hand in the mud' rationale doesn't work in this case. Think of the hub's initial kiss beginning to make an impression that is slightly out of alignment, and then shifting (or snapping) into proper alignment. That was out rationale.
To me, a tilted hub (class 8) would only affect the outside devices, not the center of the coin.
I replied to your PM Lestrrr. Maybe there is more info on there you can use??

[fugnchill]

Thanks Bob,

The "Hand in the Mud" scenario was from someone on the Coppercoins forum that Steven provided a link to...I didn't think it applied either. As you mentioned in the PM, a concrete definition will come.

Thanks again,
Lestrrr

[trails]

Like Bob P. I do not like the tilted hub classification applied to doublings on the interior design elements, it is just not a correct fit. Moreover, trails and wavy steps (one in the same thing) should not be considered a Class VIII or IX either since they are not a doubled die, but a design extension. Again this is something very different in nature in how it is made and when it happens.

While I can see how some would call trails a doubled die, by applying a very loose interpretation of what a doubled die is, there is no present class that could apply to a trail die; nothing fits.

As I have said before, we are applying definitions to doubled dies that are being made by the single squeeze system of hubbing that were made for multiple hubbed dies. The apology is simple; it is like comparing a jet plane to a an old bi-wing plane. They both got you from point A to point B, however, there is no other similarity except they both fly.

BJ Neff