Zinc Plated Split planchet?

[Petespockets55]

A recent thread got me to wondering if there could be or has been a split planchet with the current production of plated zinc cents? The only cents I have come across or heard about are the copper ones.
I imagine the only way it might occur is if the zinc core could somehow split before being plated. If the core could split and if the mint weighs them just before minting, most (if not all) would be eliminated.
Also the plating process might actually add some strength and rigidity to the zinc core in much the same way the outside paper layer adds strength to drywall. Thanks for any input, Cliff

[GrumpyEd]

Maybe it's based on the way they manufacture strips/sheets.

Copper is soft and they can work it cold. That might mean they are more likely to have layers not bonded.
You can pound it and it grows, fold it and pound it and form it into a shape but it has layers.

Zinc is hard and crumbly, it doesn't seem like they could work it into strips cold like copper.
If you pound a zinc cent it will crumble and if you fold, it snaps.

My guess is they work them at different temps, the copper gets worked more cold but maybe the zinc is manufactured differently maybe with less done cold. The way zinc is, I can't imagine they could work it like copper by starting with a thick piece and rolling it into a sheet cold and rolling it on a spool.

At the mint they have rolls of copper or copper nickel. They buy zinc blanks already made and plated. Maybe the process is much different.

Just guesses, it would be interesting to see how exactly they make zinc sheets/strips compared to copper.

[jfines69]

The mint needs a section called Ask the Mint then maybe we could find out answers to some of our questions... Then again the mint wouldn't be able to charge us under the FOIA for their time spent researching I do not see why the zinc core could not split... Just like any metal it depends on how pure it is when poured from the smelter... The mint probably does not weigh the one cent planchets... They arrive at the mint ready to strike!!!

[Petespockets55]

The mint needs a section called Ask the Mint then maybe we could find out answers to some of our questions... Then again the mint wouldn't be able to charge us under the FOIA for their time spent researching I do not see why the zinc core could not split... Just like any metal it depends on how pure it is when poured from the smelter... The mint probably does not weigh the one cent planchets... They arrive at the mint ready to strike!!!

Thanks Ed and Jim. I forgot they outsource production of the the zinc planchets.
But I would think the subcontractor would have controls in place to verify the planchet weight meets mint specs at some point in the production process.

"I do not see why the zinc core could not split..."
OK... but does anyone know if there any images or examples in our numismatic world?

[jfines69]

Thanks Ed and Jim. I forgot they outsource production of the the zinc planchets.
But I would think the subcontractor would have controls in place to verify the planchet weight meets mint specs at some point in the production process.

"I do not see why the zinc core could not split..."
OK... but does anyone know if there any images or examples in our numismatic world?

I have not seen any of the planchets being split... I have seen images of ones with the plating having split open tho... I posted one before and I believe Larry recently posted one... The contractor most likely does verify the weights... The mint probably has field agents to inspect a certain percentage of all production runs much like FDA inspectors in the beef, pork and poultry industries... We do know that the mint and contractor does not keep the plating tanks clean

[GrumpyEd]

"I do not see why the zinc core could not split..."

Another analogy.
You go pick some regular wood boards at the lumber yard, some you pass on because they already have cracks.
You go buy some sheets of particle board, they all look the same when new because of how they are manufactured it's more homogeneous. (then after you get it wet it falls apart like a zincoln LOL)

[jfines69]

Another analogy.
You go pick some regular wood boards at the lumber yard, some you pass on because they already have cracks.
You go buy some sheets of particle board, they all look the same when new because of how they are manufactured it's more homogeneous. (then after you get it wet it falls apart like a zincoln LOL)

I hate particle, fiber and OSB

[Petespockets55]

Another analogy.
You go pick some regular wood boards at the lumber yard, some you pass on because they already have cracks.
You go buy some sheets of particle board, they all look the same when new because of how they are manufactured it's more homogeneous. (then after you get it wet it falls apart like a zincoln LOL)

This seems like a great analogy.
Some Copper planchets seem to turn out similar to plywood (laminated or layered)
Whereas the zinc cents seem similar to OSB/particleboard (compressed core material-with molecular or adhesive bonding?)
This makes me realize I may have worded my original question incorrectly. Does anyone know of split planchet (before or after the Strike) copper plated zinc cents? I just don't recall seeing or hearing of any with the current composition. Thanks for your help and patience. Cliff

[jfines69]

Here is the link to Larrys about split copper plating http://www.lincolncentforum.com/foru...=split+plating Hope this helps a little!!!

[Petespockets55]

Thank you Jim for the link. I forgot about that thread.
And the link you provide in it to the one you found is nice also even though it didn't get much notice at the time.
The link you provided here http://www.lincolncentforum.com/foru...=split+plating . has some nice images, as usual, especially #3 which shows shadowing like there is extra metal or peeling like you suggested in the title.
On the right side in image 4 Does the line extend over the rim and down the collar to the reverse ?

[VAB2013]

Thank you Jim for the link. I forgot about that thread.
And the link you provide in it to the one you found is nice also even though it didn't get much notice at the time.
The link you provided here http://www.lincolncentforum.com/foru...=split+plating . has some nice images, as usual, especially #3 which shows shadowing like there is extra metal or peeling like you suggested in the title. On the right side in image 4 Does the line extend over the rim and down the collar to the reverse ?

Thank you Cliff for bringing up this topic! I had not seen Larry's or Jim's threads on this subject either! Really good information and pics guys!

[jfines69]

Thank you Jim for the link. I forgot about that thread.
And the link you provide in it to the one you found is nice also even though it didn't get much notice at the time.
The link you provided here http://www.lincolncentforum.com/foru...=split+plating . has some nice images, as usual, especially #3 which shows shadowing like there is extra metal or peeling like you suggested in the title.
On the right side in image 4 Does the line extend over the rim and down the collar to the reverse ?

It does appear to migrate down the edge... Not sure if it goes to the rev... I will need to find it and check to make sure!!!

[jfines69]

Here is the link to the 2014P I found http://www.lincolncentforum.com/foru...Rev-Plate-Peel notice the difference between the 2... The 91 looks more like a linear plating bubble that got split open from a hit... The 2014 looks more like split plating... I do not believe that these are a result of the zinc core delaminating tho... Hope that helps a little!!!

[Petespockets55]

It does appear to migrate down the edge... Not sure if it goes to the rev... I will need to find it and check to make sure!!!

Those are really interesting finds.
If I understand the planchet production correctly, zinc plated type 1 (before the rim) blanks are delivered to the mint and the mint places them in an upsetting mill which creates the rim on the planchet.
What I'm wondering now is if your coin could be an example of a layer of copper plating becoming detached in the upsetting mill (or elsewhere) from one blank, through the process of adding the rim, and be "stuck" or bonded to another through the same "upsetting mill" process. (If I understand correctly the current accepted belief is that plated cents cannot have lamination issues but the plating can crack.)
Here is a link https://i.ytimg.com/vi/TCI16hXpRQk/maxresdefault.jpg showing an image of a bin at the Philly mint with what look to be blanks before the rim is applied. Below the bin and to the left are what appears to be remnants/pieces of something (copper plating?) on the table. The non-copper color of the pieces seem to match the face of the blanks in the bin.
Here is a Youtube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCI16hXpRQk that the above still comes from. At about the 25 second point, it shows the rim appearing on the blank (I think this is computer graphics at this portion.). Pretty neat.
Sometimes my peepers see "stuff" that my mind tries to answer and sometimes it's vice versa.
Once again thanks for looking and adding any insight, Cliff

[Petespockets55]

Here is the link to the 2014P I found http://www.lincolncentforum.com/foru...Rev-Plate-Peel notice the difference between the 2... The 91 looks more like a linear plating bubble that got split open from a hit... The 2014 looks more like split plating... I do not believe that these are a result of the zinc core delaminating tho... Hope that helps a little!!!

Nice images once again. You find some neat stuff!
Looks like the end of the peel extends down the rim on this one also. Any chance you lifted the peel in the field to see what's underneath? (I know, I know, its a zinc core. but still?)