1909S-VDB (2 examples). Opinions greatly appreciated!

[jay4202472000]

I have only recently started to study how to spot fake examples of these, as I never expected to have a chance at owning one. I am fairly comfortable with the 4 mint mark positions and mint mark style, but I am miles away from being confident in counterfeit detection. Anyway, I have my eye on 3 that are ending soon. I am not planing on rushing my purchase, but I am also not ruling out any of these (although I don't think I have a shot at #3). Also, I have $675-$725 to work with. If you see ANYTHING that bothers you please speak up. Thanks for any help!!

Refs:

https://www.pcgs.com/news/Counterfeit-Vs-Authentic-1909-s-Vdb-Lincoln-Cents

https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/5217/Counterfeit-1909-S-VDB-Lincoln-Cents/

Coin 1: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-S-VDB-...edirect=mobile

I like this one. I think acetone would make it quite nice. Looks like Die #2 & VDB is correct.

Coin 2: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-S-VDB-...edirect=mobile

Don't like as much as 1, but still ok. Die #2 & VDB correct.

Coin 3: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-S-VDB-...edirect=mobile

Love it! I have no chance though I believe. Looks like Die #4, but can't see VDB. Also, die scratch from second wheat hair toward E, on left wheat ear matches a PCGS certified example. Something still worries me about this coin. It looks too good to not be in a holder of some kind...unless it got a details re-colored?? I can't tell if the color is right or if it's the images...or just my eyes, lol!

Feel free to educate me now, lol!

[makecents]

Coin 1 and coin 2 are the same coin and link.

[jay4202472000]

Coin 1 and coin 2 are the same coin and link.

Sorry, should be fixed.

[makecents]

Sorry, should be fixed.

I'm familiar with other counterfeit coins but not Lincolns yet so I don't have a lot to offer there but #3, that will probably sell for the most, looks the most problematic to me. If you tried to holder that coin, I would say it would come back to you saying that it had been cleaned. I see what looks like scratches from cleaning on the southwest corner of the obverse below LIBERTY and the tops of the wheat stalks don't look right, wavy, like from buffing. I also don't like the light they used, the fact it's not cropped for a closer pic and no closeups. Some folks are very good and working the light to hide the majority of scratches from cleaning, I've been burned.

[willbrooks]

Did you have a look at #3's other listings?

[makecents]

https://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=coinsncards&myworld=true&items=25&iid=-1&de=off&which=negative&interval=365

[GrumpyEd]

Did you have a look at #3's other listings?

If his S-VDB or 55 DDO are spotless reds they should be graded, I'd be afraid to play the game of buying them raw. Those are 3-4K coins if they are full red blazers. So I pretty much would avoid em, since Jay is looking for a $725 or less coin.

[GrumpyEd]

Sorry, should be fixed.

The first 2 look ok but after looking at the other listings on ebay... it really shows what I said about flat prices. I see a few dogs for about $500 then raw decent ones that will probably sell for for around $700,
Then I see some already slabbed PCGS VFs for buy it now for around $799.

So it tells that if it was me, I might hold off, add in $75 (grading the raw ones and shipping would cost about that)..
So I'd make my goal to get at least a vf 25 already in a PCGS slab (or NGC if I see a bargain) and do it for under $800 and if you look long enough you might even do it for $725ish. I'd look for one with true views or history auction pics (sometimes looking up the cert will link you to true views or past sale pics) so you can be 100% it's the same coin so you have no risk at all. I mean you might save $100 getting a raw one but to me the risk isn't worth it. I think you can get a nice graded one with no risk for your $725 limit or slightly more.

[WaterSport]

I agree, don't buy key coins raw. You must be willing to wait till the best coin for the price comes along. By doing your searches it will become obvious when a great example for the price appears.

WS

[amosamos16]

I would not buy any of them. But pic 1 seems ok. Pic 3 looks like a added S to me. It's a easy, common coin to buy in all grades certified. As others said don't waste your money in one that's not.

[TPring]

I would be suspicious.

You can always buy it and if you don't like it then return it.


Though you may get hit with a fee [not sure how ebay works regarding returns].

[GrumpyEd]

You can always buy it and if you don't like it then return it.

In theory you can but I've heard of it not always working.
For example: you buy a coin, you get it and are not sure it's real. Seller says it is and it's the coin in his photos. Maybe seller says go ahead get it graded and they'll refund if it comes back fake. The problem is you might miss the return window in time by the time you get it back from grading, seller might be gone and ebay might say you missed the time limit. They keep changing the rules. This is why buyers like to use a credit card because you can also try getting refunded by credit card if ebay/paypall won't but that also involves ever changing rules of ebay/paypal/credit card. Bottom line is if you return it because it's not what was claimed, say it was significantly not as described SNAD and do not take too long to do it.

The other issue is how do you prove a coin is fake, even most TPGs almost never say a coin is fake. They might refuse to grade or say it's questionable authenticity but they probably won't say it is fake. Reason being..... you send TPG a coin, if they say it is fake I think they are obliged to send it to the secret service not return it to you. They don't want to do that partly because it's a hassle for them plus what if if it was a gold coin that is fake but is gold (many are) then the person that submitted it goes ballistic if they don't at least get their fake (but gold) coin back.

[jfines69]

Following the guidelines on PCGS https://www.pcgs.com/news/Counterfei...-Lincoln-Cents Coin 1 and 2 look legit to me... C1 looks like the 3rd date/MM, C2 looks to be the same die but different coins as the 2nd 9 has a hit on the top... The 3rd coin looks like the counterfeit on PCGS as the MM and the VDB look like matches... The VDB especially since the center bar of B is not slanted upward???

[jay4202472000]

Thank you all! That's why you are the best!