1982 Small Date Copper MAD?

[makecents]

I need help with this one and help with some terminology in general. I won't lie, I get confused even after reading the descriptions of each a couple of times. You have the misaligned die, broad strike, off center, out of collar. Usually the examples of each with a description are extreme and because of this, I don't always know for sure what I have. What do I have here and how does it happen?

Thanks for looking, Jon.

[GrumpyEd]

I think it would be slightly off center. since the shift is about the same on both sides and it looks about normal size.

If it was on one side (obv/rev) then it would be mad.
If it was bigger in diameter than normal then it would be broadstruck.

See what others think

[enamel7]

That is a MAD. They were extremely common on the 82 cents for some reason.

[GrumpyEd]

That is a MAD. They were extremely common on the 82 cents for some reason.

They are common but wouldn't MADs not be off on both sides?

[enamel7]

With the coin flipped over from north to south I would expect to see the off center on the same side of the coin. I don't see it on this one.

[VAB2013]

Yeah, I'm in on the MAD too. With the rim missing at Liberty and the rim on the reverse looking almost the same all the way around except a slight tapering at One Cent (other than that the design appears to be centered). I think the off centered areas would have to be in the same location on both sides to be an off center strike. (I may have just described what enamel said, but with more words

[Petespockets55]

Jon, what is the diameter?
The extra thickness doesn't seem to correspond to a normal MAD or off center strike.

On the obverse image it appears the thickest part of the rim is about 1:30 (between 1:00 and 2:00).
On the reverse image the thickest part of the rim is about 1:00.

With an off center wouldn't we expect the reverse rim thickness to show up directly opposite the obverse thickness? If so, 4:30 should be the location of the extra thickness in the rim, correct?

I'm wondering is this an example of a MAD that was struck out of collar (& therefore slightly off center)?

[mustbebob]

I agree with the definitely being a MAD. The entire rim being seen on the reverse is the primary reason for this. Good call folks.

[makecents]

Thank you for your help and explanations everybody!! Thanks to Ed, enamel, Viv, Cliff and Bob!! Enamel, I was going to give you the correct answer credit but my post got moved to general discussion. Cliff here are a few pics at 1/4 turns. Looks to be 19 mm though.

[GrumpyEd]

What puzzles me with it is what Cliff said, both sides are off but not exactly the same.

[mustbebob]

There is such a thing as double MADs. I have a couple that are much more noticeable than this one. Remember that the dies are positioned manually and as such, the human element is always present.
According to Mike Diamond, he says that double MADs are much more rare and probably worth a premium. I will try to find mine and posts photos. I believe they were prevalent in 1983/84.

[Petespockets55]

What puzzles me with it is what Cliff said, both sides are off but not exactly the same.

For some reason it was easier for me to pinpoint the thin part of the rim and look directly across to locate the thicker rim.

[GrumpyEd]

There is such a thing as double MADs. I have a couple that are much more noticeable than this one. Remember that the dies are positioned manually and as such, the human element is always present.
According to Mike Diamond, he says that double MADs are much more rare and probably worth a premium. I will try to find mine and posts photos. I believe they were prevalent in 1983/84.

That would explain it .

Thanks Bob

[jfines69]

I got a question... Could it be the obv is slightly misaligned but both dies were slightly tilted... The insides of the rims on both sides appear to be chamfered???

[mustbebob]

I guess anything is possible Jim, but just like a lot of errors, there are 'within limits' scenarios and MADs are one of them. If the rim is still seen, and the coins devices are not affected, it is within limits. Even if the rim may be missing on the edge of the misalignment, the lack of any damage to the devices still makes it OK. As far as tilted strikes, it would be very difficult to set up the dies tilted. The entire die body is inserted and seated into the coining machine. I don't see how it could be tilted at all. The very act of striking the coins would straighten it out anyway...right?