Possible new RDV?

[DoubleYou]

I can virtually guarantee that it isn't a 1982. Although Variety Vista doesn't mention it, there is a significant change to RDV-004 that, from what I have observed, occurred in 1981. Consider the following images. The first is from 1974 when the new design was still very crisp on the Memorial. The steps are full and sharp. Next is an image of a 1980, where over time you can see that the steps and other elements have faded significantly from reusing the master hub over time. Then, the next image shows what changed circa 1981 (I have not observed whether or not there may be transitional varieties). Notice that it appears that someone really shoddily re-engraved the steps into the memorial. Then from then on they look really crappy until they finally refreshed it in 1986 (not shown).

Therefore, I would suggest that eliminates a date of 1982 or 1981. I would also contend that this change is significant enough to warrant its own RDV designation.
IMG_20191105_213244.jpgIMG_20191105_214625.jpgIMG_20191105_214915.jpg

[jfines69]

I have moved this post to it's own thread in hopes of getting more input from some of the pros here... It was originally in a thread by Petespockets55 (Cliff)... Sorry for the delay Wendell... Hopefully I have all my ducks in a row!!!

[jfines69]

I did a little research using images from PCGS Type 3, Memorial Reverse (Copper)... Comparing Wendells with the 74, 74S (Regular Strike) and 74S (Prrof) the steps are really strong... In 75 the steps on the 75 and 75S (Proof) are already weak... By 80 the steps have really gotten super weak to the point they do not show up on the 80S (Proof) and I would have thought the proof dies would be all early stages and the strongest devices??? In 81 the steps appear to have been re-engraved on both the 81 (Regular Strike) and the 81S (Proof)... There is precedence of re-engraving being a separate RDV... In 1971 the bow tie was re-engraved apparently in mid year and is designated on VV as ODV-028... It covers the 71, 71D, 71S (Regular Strike) and the 71S (Proof)... I included side by side pics of Wendells 74, 80 and 81 for, hopefully, an easier comparison... I'm in with Wendells thought of this being a new RDV but I'm not the one capable of that decision!!!


Added - I know there are a lot of links but that was the best way I could come up with to show the progression of die wear and re-engraving!!!

[DoubleYou]

Just to add some clarification, what I am pointing out is that there is a significant enough change between the steps from 1980 to those present in 1981 that it should be considered its own variety. I am suggesting that RDV-004 should be considered as running from 1974 through 1980, and the reengraved steps variety should be designated as its own RDV from 1981 to 1985.

[mustbebob]

Wendell, Since VV is where you are getting your primary information from, have you asked Dr. Wiles to consider your proposed change? It would seem to me that the Reverse Design Variety numbering system originated there. He may have data we are unaware of.

[DoubleYou]

Very true. I will send him an email and see if he has any thoughts.

[jfines69]

Cool... Make sure to include a link to his thread... Let us know what you come up with!!!

[GrumpyEd]

Sounds like it comes down to the attributor (guy who made the listings of ODV/RDVs) and where they draw the line between a change and progression of the same one over time and where re-engraving fits into it all.

[jfines69]

Thanks for the follow up... Did you talk with Dr. Wiles???

[DoubleYou]

He wants to see the coins to make any determination. So I guess I will get a submission together here.

[jfines69]

Awesome... Got me toes crossed for you... Can't cross the fingers due to typing