1997 P Thick Design or New DDO 002 ?

[return-coiner]

On this 1997 P cent, the word "LIBERTY" shows some thickness or slight separation and on the facial portrait displays extra thickness. I've seen this type on doubled die before. I hope this one can be add as 1997P-002. As of now I believe there's only 1997P-001 DDO listed. I'm hoping to change that. Any comments??


Btw, who still attributes coins?

Thanks for viewing..

[makecents]

Looks like a normal design to me. Here is a nice, clean example to compare yours against on PCGS. The PCGS example has a nice spike head too and a small retained die break at the end of it, in the ear area.

PCGS https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1997-1c-rd/3145

[Petespockets55]

Hmmmm....

I'm seeing thickness on LIBERTY, especially the vertical leg of the T being wider than the top bar. (Not sure if it's glare or notching on the top left of LIBERTY. )
Can't tell about the ear either and I could never pick up on the extra beard lines on other varieties.

Any chance you can get an image of LIBERTY with the light source @ K6-7?

[mustbebob]

A lot of people confuse simple thickness as a doubled die. That is not always the case. The definition of a class 6 doubled die is 'Distended hub doubling' This means there is additional diagnostics such as twisting or stretching.

This class is generally caused by using hubs to impress designs into improperly annealed dies. The design flattens out and becomes stretched or die tended toward the outside of the design.

There are many other reasons for just plain extra thickness including wear/deterioration of the die as well as circulation wear.

[willbrooks]

A lot of people confuse simple thickness as a doubled die. That is not always the case. The definition of a class 6 doubled die is 'Distended hub doubling' This means there is additional diagnostics such as twisting or stretching. There are many other reasons for just plain extra thickness including wear/deterioration of the die as well as circulation wear.

... which makes most class 6 "doubled dies" not doubled dies at all! Just dies made by worn hubs. Wouldn't you agree?

[makecents]

... which makes most class 6 "doubled dies" not doubled dies at all! Just dies made by worn hubs. Wouldn't you agree?

I'm thinking mostly of wheat DDR's when I say this but don't the class 6 usually travel in one direction? Is this how worn hubs look too? You got me wondering about this.

[mustbebob]

... which makes most class 6 "doubled dies" not doubled dies at all! Just dies made by worn hubs. Wouldn't you agree?

Could be, but then again, the dies were apparently improperly annealed. That would be the reason more than worn hubs.

Jason Cuve and Mike Diamond made the following post on this forum. I think is explains everything nicely.

http://www.lincolncentforum.com/forum/showthread.php?40499-Class-VI-(Distended-Hub-Doubling)

[hasfam]

Thanks Bob. Super interesting.